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  #11  
Old 20-10-11, 00:17
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T4Lyn T4Lyn is offline
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Default Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

Quote:
Originally Posted by spudbasher View Post
Signed , what about a co-ordinated go slow protest in as many cities as possible ,like the fuel protests and the anti capitalism protests that are currently happening? Power to the people man.
Like this? http://www.thegreatlondongoslow.com/
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  #12  
Old 20-10-11, 00:19
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t4Chippy t4Chippy is offline
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Default Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

I'll sticky this for one week Lyn


Personalised tables and table accessories
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  #13  
Old 24-10-11, 20:34
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t5van t5van is offline
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Default Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

Easy for me .. sorry you want me to work on your house in London now it's £150 extra Per day..

Simples.. live in city pay up.!!!!!! don't pay up get some one else to do it
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  #14  
Old 30-10-11, 14:15
louismc44 louismc44 is offline
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Default Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

Dear All
2008 I wrote to Ken before he was kicked out of the GLA
No reply from him either.

I first wrote to Boris Johnson back in April this year and still no reply?

I would like to know if you have any knowledge about the impact this new ruling will have effect upon me and countless others like me too?

The LEZ, which is being implemented on 3rd January, 2012, is going to cause a great deal of hardship to small business owners, charities and individuals. The proposed solution of Transport for London of fitting an expensive filter to older diesel vehicles is not viable as the filters are not designed to work within the stop start driving environment of London.

The grounds are that the proposed solution for the thousands of owners of older vehicles to fit a filter, which will not work in London driving conditions. This is irrational and suggests that the development of the regulations is defective as TFL should have investigated their solution properly and would then be aware that it is not valid for the London area

Below is a brief summery that outlines my points why I think this is a wrong law.

Also I would like to know where you stand upon this?

I have a HM Government e-petition https://submissions.epetitions.direc.../signature/new

Low Emission Zone regulations

Dear Boris Johnson

I support the idea of cleaning the environment air as much as possible, but I feel this proposal could have been handled with more sensitivity.
Owner of older vehicles which cannot be effectively converted to these new filters should have been exempt from these regulations, or there should be some form of licensing for this category.
As you are probably aware there is a requirement for diesel van, over 3.5 tons, to comply with the low emission requirements after the 3rd January, 2012.

The solution given by Transport for London for someone who has an older van in this category is to fit a filter, (which currently cost around £3500 or more due to fitting cost). However, this solution is not valid within the London area as these type of filters require the vehicle to be driven constantly at high revolutions for about 20 minutes before they start operating properly. This is confirmed by the BBC programme Watchdog,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/...filters.htmlde

Demonstrating the problem in cars and by discussion with a registered filter installer,

I have contacted a Transport for London approved diesel particulate filter.

Below is the name of one of the many listed dealers here in the UK

Their website http://www.baumot.ch/

One of their agents who supply and fit these filters.

JL Engineering Ltd

7a Rainbow Industrial Estate - Station Approach
SW20 0JY Raynes Park, London
Tel: 020 8944 7056

info@jl-engineering.com

After contacting the above agents and having had a smoke test from my M.O.T.

I was advised that it would be a complete waste of my time and money to fit a diesel particulate filter on my motor home.

Driving conditions in London are such that it is almost impossible to run a vehicle in the correct way to start a filter functioning properly. If the filter is not operated in the correct way then it needs to be cleared on a regular basis, at a cost of around £100- £150 a time.

It is obvious that thousands of vehicles will have the same problem and I would suspect that there will be serious political implications as businesses, charity and school mini-buses and those with motor camper vans are affected by ineffective filters.

The new regulation will really makes it difficult for me.

I am a pensioner (on state and pension credit) who bought a Ford Transit van, which I bought quite some time ago with a small legacy from my mother. I had it converted into a mobile home, and registered it as a motor home with the D.V.L.A which I use for holidays and visiting friends. I do not use the Motorhome for deliveries, or for constant travelling in the London central area or for anything else than beyond picking up a major heavy load, i.e. shopping.

I cannot afford to fit an expensive filter, which will not work in London, and consequently cannot afford the regular payment of getting the filter cleaned, which is likely to be needed to be done at least three or four times a year.

The van was bought,(coming up to 7 years now) before the emission regulations were made public and probably before they were made formal regulations.

The regulations are draconian and seem to be designed to force people like myself into getting rid of their vehicles. In my case I cannot to replace my Motorhome.

Retrospective Law

I note that it is generally accepted that in British Law a person cannot be charged retrospectively charged with an offence - i.e. if a person commits an act, which is subsequently made illegal under legislation passed after the act was committed.

The punishing aspect of these regulations which seems to be to force people with older diesel vehicles to sell them, without providing them with a special licence for people with vehicles, that cannot be effectively converted, seems to be a retrospective rule. I believe there are some licences for some historical vehicles.

When I bought my van there was no way that I could reasonably have foreseen that I would not be able to drive it in the London area a almost 7 years later.

Consequences to me

The loss of my camper van is a loss of my freedom; the loss of my ability to travel; and the loss of the many hundreds pounds and work that I have had done for me to make it into a Motorhome that I can be proud of.

If you do not give my Motorhome a exemption?

I will be force to park it outside the LEZ, and each time I need to get to it for a holiday or travel around, I will have to ask one of my sonsís to take me there in their car.

Plus I might be getting a bit of irritation or even anger from the local residents wherever I happen to park outside their homes? Also there will be a security risk with potential damage to my Motorhome, or theft from my Motorhome.

Yours sincerely Louis Boyce

See footnotes below

The LEZ is a good initiative for brand new vehicles.

I think that there should be exemption for existing vehicles owned by businesses and individuals based in London.

I note that the filters will not effectively work in the London area as a vehicle needs to be revved up for around 20 minutes, which is unlikely to be achieved in LEZ.

As a result business and individuals will be forced to either pay around£3,500 for a filter, rev their engines up unnecessarily, and will still have to have their vehicle regularly off the road while the filter is cleaned, at around £100.

This will particularly hit small businesses, charity mini-vans and people carriers and individuals with older camper-vans.

In most cases the only option would be for the owner to scrap the vehicle. Some may be able to buy replacement - many will not and I suspect that quite a few small businesses and charities will close.

This would probably hit old people disproportionately as say a small one man business , where the owner is maybe 5 or 6 years from retiring - will close the business as it would not be worth investing in a new vehicle.

My suggestion would be that owners could be given an exemption licence for existing vehicles only.

I would also point out that under UK law that laws should not be applied retrospectively - this seems not to be the case as regards LEZ.

Part of an AA report on DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER

For further information, see their website at this link below

http://www.aa-academy.com/Training/L...er%20(DPF).asp

A surprisingly large number of people donít take their cars anywhere near a motorway so passive regeneration is only going to be possible once in a blue moon. Soot builds up in the DPF and intervention from the ECU is needed to shift it. In the case of a filter without additive when the soot loading reaches about 45 per cent the ECU switches off the EGR and increases the fuel injection period so there is a small injection after the main injection. These measures help to raise the engine exhaust temperature to over 600ļC which is high enough to burn off the soot particles.

This isnít a very straight forward process if the journey is a bit stop/start. If the driver suddenly has to stop or slow down, the ECU canít complete the regeneration and it has to temporarily abort the operation. When the vehicleís speed reaches a neck-snapping 38mph, the ECU can have another go at regeneration. The ECU will keep trying for 15 minutes, but after two 15 minute attempts the soot levels (loading) in the DPF will have increased. At soot loading of 50 per cent the ECU will have another go at clearing it. It raises the maximum exhaust temperature to somewhere between 600ļC and 650ļC to try and trigger a regeneration process. The system will try to create a regeneration for another 15 minutes and if this doesnít work it will have one more go for 15 minutes. After this the DPF light on the dash will be illuminated.

If anyone opens the driverís handbook to see what this light might mean, they will see that the DPF has been partially blocked with bits of soot because the car has only done short journeys. The driver then needs to drive at a speed of at least 40 mph for around 10 minutes to clear it. This type of drive should allow the temperature in the DPF to become high enough to burn off the soot.

If this doesnít work then it is back to the dealer to see if they can fixed it?.
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  #15  
Old 01-11-11, 23:37
bman bman is offline
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Default Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

I had to sell mine Only just finished putting it all back together again and enjoying it then. BOOM letter came through the post giving me the bad news... Time to move on i guess! Didn't look back just cut my losses passed it on to nice chap who sounds like he will continue to enjoy for a few more years. Bought a shiny T5 to console myself. Il still sign the petition for what its worth for other members.
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  #16  
Old 20-11-11, 18:09
signco signco is offline
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Default Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

On the other hand I just bought my first T4 from a guy in London at an excellent price.
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  #17  
Old 11-12-11, 20:29
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Alex103 Alex103 is offline
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Default Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

Signed, may just be another name down, but the one more signiture counts. Takes no time at all to do either....
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  #18  
Old 12-12-11, 00:02
MR OX's Avatar
MR OX MR OX is offline
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Default Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

Signed, not really fair is it?
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  #19  
Old 12-12-11, 00:14
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Jim Doodle Jim Doodle is offline
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Default Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

It's sad so many vehicles find themselves superfluous, but consider the positive affect it will have on air quality in the city, and those family and people that live and work in the city. Just as well the T4 comes in a petrol variety
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  #20  
Old 17-12-11, 02:12
Damon0403 Damon0403 is offline
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T4 Post Icon Re: Save London's Vans - Scrap the LEZ extension

Why not organise by forums and social networks a ( white van man ) go slow convoy through the lez I'm sure we can all get together for something like this enough people get together for big events eg run to the sun
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