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  #1  
Old 05-04-16, 21:06
10 stallion's Avatar
10 stallion 10 stallion is offline
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T4 Post Icon T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

This is my quest to build 2.5 TDI engine that can handle 300 bhp or more.
I found that the vw engine is good but not as good as the volvo v70 engine, the bottom end of the engine is much stronger. Back in the day volvo must have thought they could improve on vw's work.
first job get engine.I found one on e bay VOLVO V70 2.5 ENGINE WITH HIGH PRESSURE PUMP AND INJECTORS D5252T externally they are exactly the same as vw so a great base to work of.

Volvo v70 engine brought on ebay paid 250 ( D5252T ENGINE )


THE BLOCK IN THIS NEXT PICTURE HAS ONLY BEEN CLEANED


crank+rocker cover has just come out of the chemical bath , so is spotless .


oil pickup goes into sump
[IMG]http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/picture.php?albumid=41121&pictureid=315473[/IMG

end of the pickup pipe


HEAD HAS BEEN SKIMMED + VALVES RE SEATED

piston combustion chamber



STANDARD PISTON REMOVED

Gas flowed head



block before skim

piston cleaned and new rings in place

piston ring set boxes





shells

Sputter shells







HOW SPUTTER BEARINGS GET THERE COATING

gasket set



head gasket

golf high strength PD head bolts.These are to long and will need to be cut down.

ARL 1.9 BOLTS these are for the golf which only has 10 bolts we need 12 bolts as it's 5 cylinder so i brought 2 packs of 10. 8 spare for next time .But if you like you can buy them direct from vw in singles but they are expensive. Trade price per box of 10 from euro car parts 23.10 inc very good price

the block is now skimmed

sealant used on both sides of the gaskets to ensure good seal



Bottom of crankshaft with pistons in,and all oiled up

Bottom of rods are stamped 1 to 5 with dots .If you was going to re-bore the block you wouldn't need to do this,but i need loose pistons but high compression so i just honed the block .Cosworth back in the 80s would buy old cranks to fit in there new engines ,because they had proved they were up to the job but a new one were un tested.

top view of block with pistons in







gasket for the oil pump+ Wellseal

oil pump fitted



sump

The sump has walls/ veins inside to reduce the oil sloshing about when cornering hard.Oil pick up sits right in the middle.

crankshaft cog this has done 100,000 miles and is worn on the top edges .If you put it on the end of the crankshaft it moves slightly left /right which shows the wear ..THIS MUST BE REPLACED THEY ARE PRONE FOR SHEARING CLEAN OFF.If in doubt replace.





conrod grinder


valve grinding machine


Crank grinding machine


block /head skimmer.


Block bore honing machine

Fuel pump this is to make shore the main diesel pump gets as much fuel as it needs as standard is gravity fed ( only needed if you want more than 230 bhp )





The graph shows 2 figures 1 in RED 22/56V GARRETT TURBO =177 BHP + 370 NM which blow up @ 188 bhp
figure 2 in green 22/60v GARRETT TURBO =211 BHP + 489 NM
The bottom line shows rolling road resistance / tyres etc just to prove both tests were done correctly . The graph clearly shows the red line higher up to 2000 rpm because it is a smaller turbo it can spool up quicker but then the bigger turbo takes off big time . The bigger the turbo the more lag you will get.

Luck favours the prepared mind

Last edited by 10 stallion; 02-05-16 at 13:35.
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  #2  
Old 05-04-16, 21:10
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nicklouse nicklouse is offline
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Default Re: T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

IIRC they were based on the VW Marine engine.

Bongo Fury has already been there with this.
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  #3  
Old 05-04-16, 21:23
adamss24 adamss24 is offline
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Default Re: T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 stallion View Post
This is my quest to build 2.5 TDI engine that can handle 300 bhp or more.
I found that the vw engine is good but not as good as the volvo v70 engine, the bottom end of the engine is much stronger. Back in the day volvo must have thought they could improve on vw's work.
first job get engine.I found one on e bay VOLVO V70 2.5 ENGINE WITH HIGH PRESSURE PUMP AND INJECTORS D5252T externally they are exactly the same as vw so a great base to work of.
Add just rods and it will be strong enough for your power goal however choice of turbo limits the power output unless you go with a vnt turbo. The volvo engine is identical to the 150 bhp engine, difference is nozzles and turbo, still runs tyy msa15 ecu and wastegated turbo...
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Old 05-04-16, 21:25
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slimjim slimjim is offline
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Default Re: T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 stallion View Post
This is my quest to build 2.5 TDI engine that can handle 300 bhp or more.
I found that the vw engine is good but not as good as the volvo v70 engine, the bottom end of the engine is much stronger. Back in the day volvo must have thought they could improve on vw's work.
first job get engine.I found one on e bay VOLVO V70 2.5 ENGINE WITH HIGH PRESSURE PUMP AND INJECTORS D5252T externally they are exactly the same as vw so a great base to work of.
300bhp.... Gonna be a monster!
What kind of torque are you expecting?

I run a Volvo block (as nick said) currently running by 222bhp & 390lb/ft
You may want to have a look at www.T17.club and the Facebook page I run too.
http://facebook.com/groups/T17Club
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  #5  
Old 05-04-16, 21:26
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slimjim slimjim is offline
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Default Re: T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamss24 View Post
Add just rods and it will be strong enough for your power goal however choice of turbo limits the power output unless you go with a vnt turbo. The volvo engine is identical to the 150 bhp engine, difference is nozzles and turbo, still runs tyy msa15 ecu and wastegated turbo...
Nope, the Volvo engine is different to the AXG block in quite a few ways Addams.
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  #6  
Old 05-04-16, 23:08
10 stallion's Avatar
10 stallion 10 stallion is offline
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Default Re: T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

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Originally Posted by nicklouse View Post
IIRC they were based on the VW Marine engine.

Bongo Fury has already been there with this.
Yes i know bongo fury has been hear before but please give me a chance to put my spin on it .i only started this 2hrs ago this is going to take weeks , this is in real time .I haven't seen a complete engine breakdown also with the machines that are doing the job and race bearings pd head bolts etc. +all the work being done by a member of the Federation of Engine Re-Manufacturers, they have given me permission to photograph +video the brake down and rebuild of this engine.

Luck favours the prepared mind
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Old 05-04-16, 23:13
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10 stallion 10 stallion is offline
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Default Re: T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamss24 View Post
Add just rods and it will be strong enough for your power goal however choice of turbo limits the power output unless you go with a vnt turbo. The volvo engine is identical to the 150 bhp engine, difference is nozzles and turbo, still runs tyy msa15 ecu and wastegated turbo...
Thanks the engine is only part of it ,as long as it is strong enough that's great . the injectors are going to be massive +the turbo is big and a VNT + fuel pump piston 13mm + much more .

Luck favours the prepared mind
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Old 05-04-16, 23:26
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10 stallion 10 stallion is offline
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Default Re: T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimjim View Post
300bhp.... Gonna be a monster!
What kind of torque are you expecting?

I run a Volvo block (as nick said) currently running by 222bhp & 390lb/ft
You may want to have a look at www.T17.club and the Facebook page I run too.
http://facebook.com/groups/T17Club
Hi mate i am on t17 every day (FB) and i am going on 22 April me and Keith talk to you a lot.this is my phase 2 engine ready for the meet after this one.I don't need to tell you the higher you go with bhp the more it costs +the more you have to change.I'm gutted that most of my AXG parts will be no good for what i want . keep up the good work and see you real soon.

16 DAYS 8 HRS 34MINS 52 SECS

Luck favours the prepared mind
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  #9  
Old 06-04-16, 06:16
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slimjim slimjim is offline
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Default Re: T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

I am VERY happy you are stepping up and going down this route chap. Nothing but admiration for you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 stallion View Post
This is my quest to build 2.5 TDI engine that can handle 300 bhp or more.
I found that the vw engine is good but not as good as the volvo v70 engine, the bottom end of the engine is much stronger. Back in the day volvo must have thought they could improve on vw's work.
Not quite....
VW made all the blocks for Volvo. VW over engineered them at Volvos request, as they wanted to run the higher power. (193bhp?)

Looks like that "Volvo" (VW) block (didn't see the images yesterday on my phone) is slightly different to mine.
I know VW changed the design of them pretty early on as the cost of them was more than required. (Again, at Volvo's request)
VW over engineered them in the first place, so they cut them back. For example, the rod cap's on mine have an alignment dowel in them, which sits into a hole in the rod itself. Just little over engineering things like that.

Very, very interested in the build chap. Would be nice to know who you are if I talk to you a lot...

The good news on your AXG parts not being any good for the job (not sure why) is that you will easily be able to get them sold.
Stick them as for sale items on the T17 club and they will be snapped up in no time.

Keith was saying at the RR day that he wants to put a 13mm on mine, rather than the 11mm I am running right now.
Which is crazy as the turbo (GT2052) I am running for the moment just can't keep up supplying enough air to keep up with the fuel as it is (at high revs). So I am loosing potential power in unburnt fuel (lots and lots of smoke!)
Will be sorting out a different turbo at the end of the season. The van has been off the road for so long now, I just want to use it this year and enjoy all the effort I have put into it so far.

Keith was also talking about the difference between "big" injectors and smaller but properly balanced injectors that atomise the fuel correctly.
Explaining how the former will never keep up with the latter.
As you have Keith on your side all ready, I can't see you having any issues with fuelling at all.

Interested in hearing how you have sourced all your little things. Like ARP's for all the different locations. We had a pain getting hold of them when we built BF a few years back. They only supplied 4-pot kits at the time.
(EDIT) Spotted you are using Golf bolts instead. Do you know what tensile strength they are?

If you can get this build done in weeks, it will be amazing....!
REALLY looking forward to watching progress. Hope we get daily updates.....

Last edited by slimjim; 06-04-16 at 08:15.
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  #10  
Old 06-04-16, 08:38
adamss24 adamss24 is offline
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Default Re: T4 2.5 tdi race engine build goal 300 bhp+

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 stallion View Post
Thanks the engine is only part of it ,as long as it is strong enough that's great . the injectors are going to be massive +the turbo is big and a VNT + fuel pump piston 13mm + much more .
Best formula would be stock AXG 150 Bhp with rosten rods, pd150 pistons, factory Twin valve spring setup, Bosio race 520 nozzles, stock pump, gtb2060 vklr or gtb2260 vklr ( if you want less EGT). That will be more than enough for your power goal. Add a decent FMIC and egr delete + a man sized clutch ( use Sachs SRE) and you should have no problem running these. If your budget does not stretch far enough for aftermarket rods then pd115 rods drop in and sre far more robust + have tapered small end to work with the pd pistons ! I have built plenty engines and on most builds the money are wasted on bling parts and not on relevant parts !
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