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Old 21-10-18, 16:56
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johnlk johnlk is offline
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T4 Post Icon Clutch isssue 102 AYC

So, yesterday I hopped in the van and the clutch pedal went to the floor easier than normal and the gear-change was difficult due to the low biting point of the clutch.

Went out locally regardless, 4 or 5 miles later got home - just about.

Searched and read through the forum and see a couple of pointers so did some checks.

Pedal bracket etc seems secure so not that issue.
Master cylinder dry with no visible leaks. Slave not visible, (since found out it's an internal jobby), and no fluid visible anywhere along the pipes or gearbox.

The fluid level was quite low, so topped it up (maybe 250ml).

Now, as I used the last of my brake/clutch fluid topping it up, I was resigned to wait until Monday to buy some more, then have a go at bleeding the system. But now, after reading a bit more, wonder if it is the slave cyinder leaking internally, hence the low level.

Would I be wasting my time topping up and bleeding? I figured it would at least keep me going in the short term, whilst monitoring the level.
Or is there a definitive way of knowing the slave is leaking, so I can get it booked in and fixed (with clutch whilst she's all opened up)?

Van's an 03 model (on an 05 plate), AYC 102hp and only 40k miles on the clock (genuine)
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  #2  
Old 22-10-18, 14:47
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johnlk johnlk is offline
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Default Re: Clutch isssue 102 AYC

Got the clutch fluid this morning and topped it up some more.
Then bled the system, top nipple first then bottom which was well hidden. Had to take off the belly pan and another plastic cover to find it recessed in the gearbox.
Checked again for leaks from pedal and master to where the last bit of pipe disappears into the gearbox, but no signs anywhere of a leak. The only residue I found was on the slave nipple dust cover, which I guess had worked it's way back out again. Not much, and no other signs of puddles/damp/moisture etc even inside the plastic cover or belly pan.
Tested the clutch while it was on the ramps, seemed fine, then tidied up and ran it around the block and back. All seems good and back to normal.

So, my thoughts are now as to where all that fluid has gone.
1) it's either inside the gearbox having leaked out from around the slave, or
2) as the reservoir is shared with the brake system, there's a leak somewhere along them lines. I haven't checked them yet but seems logical that's the next place to look.

If it's leaked from the slave and is still insde the gearbox, is there a chance it could contaminate the clutch, or are they somehow in separate "compartments"?
And how long would someone give me before the slave deteriorted spectaculary? Or is that like asking "how long is a piece of string?"

Would of been so much easier if the slave was on the outside of the box. Could have seen and known for sure what the problem is.

Anyway, time to suit up and get under her again, now to check the brake lines, unless anyone can point me another way.
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Old 22-10-18, 15:57
hobbyhorse hobbyhorse is offline
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Default Re: Clutch isssue 102 AYC

Hi John,

It's quite common for a failing clutch master cylinder to draw air in past the seal (hence the easy pedal) - this problem often corrects itself by pumping the pedal (with little, if any air expelled when bleeding).

250 ml lost to the braking system should have shown itself with the warning light or obvious tell tails near a wheel but check the flexis just in case - don't forget the ones at the brake load comp. valve; if all is okay pull the carpet / mat back & check if the fluid has been sneaking away somewhere under the C/M/S - hope the fault is here otherwise you will be removing the gearbox

Ouch.... another knuckle
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Old 23-10-18, 19:34
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Default Re: Clutch isssue 102 AYC

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Hi John,

It's quite common for a failing clutch master cylinder to draw air in past the seal (hence the easy pedal) - this problem often corrects itself by pumping the pedal (with little, if any air expelled when bleeding).

250 ml lost to the braking system should have shown itself with the warning light or obvious tell tails near a wheel but check the flexis just in case - don't forget the ones at the brake load comp. valve; if all is okay pull the carpet / mat back & check if the fluid has been sneaking away somewhere under the C/M/S - hope the fault is here otherwise you will be removing the gearbox
Thanks hh, there is nothing around the pedal or master, not a drop. And even pumping the pedal had no effect.

Now I've looked under the van behind the wheels, there's no sign there too. I followed the brake pipes all the way from where they disappear down below under the bonnet, right back to the wheels and all looks dry.

The warning light not showing was another one thing I should have mentioned earlier as it didn't go off. I had noticed an electric plug on the reservoir when topping up and did wonder if it was for a warning light, so good to know I've got one (or should have got one)
When I checked behind each wheel for brake leaks I did see the offside rear, and nearside front pad wear sensor cables (if that's the right term) had been cut/broken/snapped sometime prior to me owning, but would these need to be connected before the light would work? Are they even on the same wiring? Did I once read here on the forum this light could be disabled somehow to stop it going off when the pads aren't ready to be changed?
Would be a job to fix mine as the cables seem to be cut way back.

Anyway, back to the leak.
One last thought would be is there some kind of sump plug for the gearbox/bell housing? I wondered if this was opened and a rush of brake/clutch fluid flowed out would be one way to confirm for sure the leak was internal at the slave.

Meanwhile trying to find a local garage willing to price for the work, if anyone can recommend one......
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Old 26-10-18, 06:04
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Default Re: Clutch isssue 102 AYC

Had a quote of a little over 900 all-in to do the job, which seems a little high, but have got little choice on places as the van is nearly 3 metres high.
They quoted 7 hours labour @60 per hour, which can't be bad. Wish I had 60 for every hour I've spent tinckering/servicing etc.

Anyway, piece of mind and less chance of a failure later down the line.

I'll start another thread about the low level warning light on the brake fluid reservoir as I guess it's an electrical issue.
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Old 26-10-18, 06:08
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Default Re: Clutch isssue 102 AYC

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60 per hour, which can't be bad.
Can't be bad for them I meant
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Old 26-10-18, 07:19
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T4 Post Icon Re: Clutch isssue 102 AYC

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Can't be bad for them I meant
60 per hour is reasonable around here, main dealer van centre is 100+ ............................... absolute bargain
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Old 26-10-18, 09:34
hobbyhorse hobbyhorse is offline
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Default Re: Clutch isssue 102 AYC

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlk View Post
Had a quote of a little over 900 all-in to do the job, which seems a little high, but have got little choice on places as the van is nearly 3 metres high.
They quoted 7 hours labour @60 per hour, which can't be bad. Wish I had 60 for every hour I've spent tinckering/servicing etc.

Anyway, piece of mind and less chance of a failure later down the line.

I'll start another thread about the low level warning light on the brake fluid reservoir as I guess it's an electrical issue.

Removing the vat gives us 750, the labour is 420 which means the parts are 330...

are they quoting for the complete clutch & the slave cylinder ?? if not, you're being stitched

Ouch.... another knuckle
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Old 26-10-18, 10:52
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Default Re: Clutch isssue 102 AYC

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Removing the vat gives us 750, the labour is 420 which means the parts are 330...

are they quoting for the complete clutch & the slave cylinder ?? if not, you're being stitched

That was exactly how the phone call went, something like 334 for parts, 7 hours labour @60 per hour, and then the vat.
I've seen others saying they've had it all done for around 600, some have been quoted 6 hours, or some have bought the parts then had quotes for the labour, but I've gone in cold and that's the only quote that I've had.

I went to him and the first thing I said was the slave is most probably leaking, so it should include that as it was the main fault.
He then went on to say they would do the clutch as a matter of course, and that they would use an LUK one, which I would have specified anyway if they didn't mention it.
Since reading loads on the forum about the importance of also changing the flywheel at the same time, i did say to the guy about changing that too, and presuming it was a dual mass. His top-of-his head reply was that he didn't think it was double, but a single version because of the age of the van. Not sure if anyone here knows for sure? And not entirely sure if his parts quote would include it.

I'm pretty confident with the place even though they're not particularly aimed at VWs.
A bit of a lack of choice around here, as I've said already.
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Old 26-10-18, 11:16
hobbyhorse hobbyhorse is offline
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Default Re: Clutch isssue 102 AYC

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Originally Posted by johnlk View Post
and presuming it was a dual mass. His top-of-his head reply was that he didn't think it was double
Hmmm. It does have a DMF - his response doesn't fill me with hope.

I know it's little drive but try James @ Cali, they really know their stuff:

http://www.calicamper.co.uk/

07770 827527

Say you were recommended by the skydivers with red T4 from Essex

Ouch.... another knuckle
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