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Old 26-02-09, 11:49
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nealglover nealglover is offline
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Default Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

Barry, speak to Richard (post #17 in this thread) at Bluebird.

He will sort you out with what you need
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Old 23-03-09, 18:24
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Piplodocus Piplodocus is offline
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Default Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

I've got an 888 special so was very interested in this. It's obvious the 888s are different design springs from the caravelle's. What about the other T4 stock springs? What difference do the 888 specials make to handling, and load? I know the 888 special is supposed to take 800kgs, and some other T4s are 1000kgs but what does this all mean in terms of ride comfort and handling? Does an 888 special have better ride than standard T4s?

I also notice it's shorter than the caravelles. Does it compress to the same height when fitted to an empty van, or is the ride height actually slightly different?

I still haven't worked out why my 888 is special apart from having 2 captains chairs, and that alone doesn't warrant a "special" tag in my book!!! (No, it's not an 888 special X-pack with all the electric windows, c/l, etc, etc.)
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Old 10-04-09, 20:43
Spock Spock is offline
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Default Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

Originally Posted by richard View Post
That one is the light weight one
Originally Posted by Simon Baxter View Post
Thats the lighter duty one, not the HD duty one, read the headings

i'm after getting some better ones. i got the 60mm jamex type ones.
but the inside edge of my rear tires wears down very quickly.
i do carry a bit of weight now and then, bombing up and down the M6 full of tools.
when there is nothing in it it seams ok. but when it's full it's on it's @rse.

some heavy duty one are in order as i can't afford the tires every 6 months!!

thanks for the info.

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Old 11-04-09, 17:01
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Bluebird Customs Bluebird Customs is offline
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Default Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

Progressive Springs (Rising Rate Springs, Progressive Rate Springs, Progressive Wound Springs)

In progressive springs each coil is spaced differently and have a variable spring rate. When free, it is easy to compress progressive springs for first centimeters. As you apply more forces, coil on a progressive spring come closer. After a certain point, coil at the top 1/4 of progressive springs begin to touch each other and finally become inactive or dead, and that makes the spring stiffer. Apply more forces to a progressive spring then it becomes stiffer because as the number of active coils in a spring decreases, the spring rate increases. So, progressive springs may both be sensitive to very small bumps on the road, while giving the stiffness you need during hard braking and turning.

Step Linear Springs (2 Step Linear Springs)
In a two-step linear spring, about half the coils have shorter spacing. As the spring compresses, the coils move closer. At a certain point, the shorter spaced coils touch, effectively eliminating them from the spring. You then have a spring comprised of only the longer coils. This "second-step" spring will be much stiffer than the whole spring (the more coils, the easier it is to compress the spring). The result is that you have one set of handling characteristics before the shorter coils touch and then you have another, completely different level of response after they touch.

Linear springs

are more often used in drag racing, road racing, track and races that require a "high spring rate", in which a constant spring rate is more important than a smooth ride. They are still popular because they are:-

1. Easier to produce and can be made to lower a car beyond the point of progressive springs.
2. Easy to work with, because spring rate never changes, allowing quick chassis setup
3. Cheaper than progressive springs, allowing most race teams to use several different sets depending on track conditions

Each spring design has its own market.

Progressive springs are likely "all-in one" solutions. Progressive springs are often used on performance aftermarket kits like KW or Weitec or others, and they are good for daily performance street driving. They help you achieve the highest performance when driving hard, while providing a smooth, comfortable drive the rest of the time.

I don't have any photos of Eibach or H & R 's but they are both progressive
KW and Weitech suspension kits - T4 and T5 accessories

Last edited by Bluebird Customs; 14-09-11 at 14:32.
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Old 11-04-09, 18:34
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Default Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

Originally Posted by richard View Post
I don't have any photos of Eibach or H & R 's but they are both progressive

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Old 23-04-09, 16:20
subofficer subofficer is offline
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Default Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

Thankx for that info clears i a lot of things
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Old 12-05-12, 08:26
whitequattro whitequattro is offline
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Default Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

Do caravelles need heavy duty lowering springs?
Mine desperately needs doing, looks sky high like a land rover
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Old 01-07-12, 22:49
Sunglasses After Dark Sunglasses After Dark is offline
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T4 Post Icon Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

Just last week I fitted a pair of Vogtland springs (from Bluebird) to the back of my Caravelle and they are great! Not the lowest but I need to carry some weight sometimes, the previous cheap Gmax springs were ok when the bus was empty or had a light load but I could tell the rear end was soft compared to the front and any handling gains by lowering were cancelled out by the soft swaying rear. Now the ride is more like original (not crashy when empty) and the handling feels more planted and there's less body roll. That's the point of lowering, it should improve the handling and look good.

when I changed the springs first time, I immediately noticed how the new springs were thinner wire. I measured them up and the new springs were 14mm wire diameter and the originals were 18.5mm in the middle. After fitting and finding that the spring were too soft I started looking around for a stiffer set. Plenty of people said they had heavy duty springs and that their springs were ok but no one seemed to be capable of using a ruler, or better still, calipers to give me a size. Hardly anyone had any info on the rating for their springs either, just light medium or heavy duty, how do you quantify that???

Most people were so useless I even thought of getting springs made by professionals who know how big the wire is and what the rating is of the springs they have made. I would have made a point of asking for this info, then got some extra sets made and sold them on to people at a reasonable price. Then I found all the info I needed on Bluebird Customs website. Ok, so I paid a bit more than I wanted to but the end result is perfect.

Spring rate is basically determined by material, number of coils, angle and wire diameter. Maybe there's a manufacturer reading this that can explain more but as far as I know the biggest factor for our purposes is the wire size and coil numbers. Most car springs are made from the same material so it's not much of a factor. If you have the same number of coils, then the angle would be roughly the same, the less coils the stiffer the spring. So the biggest factor is wire diameter, the thicker it is, the stiffer the spring. Check out your old springs, before you purchase new and ask questions!

One last thing, I would assume that a TUV certificate proves that the spring is of good quality? If that is so, it does not mean it is correct for your vehicle? I have not seen one of the certificates so I can only guess, perhaps someone can enlighten us as to what information they contain.
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Old 06-08-12, 22:05
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ubique631 ubique631 is offline
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Default Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

i have ordered cmc 60mm heavy duty today , mike at cmc assures me i will be able to carry a ton no probs, we will see....
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Old 22-01-13, 00:26
claude claude is offline
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Default Re: This "correct 19mm spring" cobblers..

best springs for T4 roses or pink for you
and here I am with a press cups - 60mm

or the eilbak -45 mm

the TA is realy bad and not sure ..

good absorbers are B6 the B4 is good but the best its B6
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