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Seat Belt Laws???

12K views 14 replies 11 participants last post by  WheelerFish 
#1 ·
Probably not posted this in the right place?

I hear the seat belt laws for rear seats of vans changes next May?

Is this true and if so can anyone advise on this?

And suggest anywhere that can supply a cheap three seater for the back of my T4 with integral 3 point belts?

Cheers

Daz

:ILU::D:ILU:
 
G
#2 ·
At present, there is no legal requirement to have seat belts fitted in the rear of camper vans. If seat belts have been fitted, however, they must be worn. There is no legal prohibition against carrying unrestrained passengers in the rear of a camper van. This is discouraged, however, and police have broad powers to prosecute drivers for carrying passengers in a manner that may cause injury. A law coming into effect on the 20th October 2007 will require new all camper vans to have seat belts fitted in all seats except those intended only for use while the vehicle is stationary. Another law coming into effect in May 2009 will prohibit carrying more passengers in the rear of a camper van than there are seat belts available, if there are any seat belts fitted in the rear at all.
 
#12 ·
To be fair, many before you have contemplated fitting rear seat belts to their split screen, bay window and flat screen Campers. The issues are the same with all of these models as they are with the T4 - panel vans are not intended to have seats fitted in the back, and as such do not have seat belt mounts built-in.


This is not strictly true with the T4 as the lower mounting points are there but the upper ones are not. If you wish to fit rear seat belts then the best option for you is to buy a Window Van or Caravelle, which for all intents and purposes are the same animal.


However, there is another complication - the seat itself. An old skool wooden rock'n'roll seat will require seat belts that are fixed to the vehicle body, aka the optional lap belts, available for the T2 Westie (built on the Kombi - or Microbus - chassis) - the wooden seat base being the weakest link here.


Late T2 Microbuses and T3 Caravelles had seat belt stalks fitted the seats whilst the retractable webbing is fitted to the bodywork. Albeit, the seat frame becomes part of the seat belt system, and as such the seat mountings themselves also become part of the system - so the seat frame and mountings are checked in the MOT - not if it's a camper though, as we've already established (although a switched-on tester will check them, anyway).


Then, there are the latest seats which are required to have inbuilt seat belts. These seats are built around a substantial frame work, which chomps a huge chunk out of your van's payload. If the desired seat slides on rails then the rails and their mountings become part of the seat belt system - if the lump isn't bolted down sufficiently then the whole lot can become an ejector seat in a major accident. This factor also applies to the latest array of metal bed frames with inbuilt seat belt mountings - the seat is only as good as it's fixing (the fixing points themselves are the weak link here but having so many spreads the loading throughout the vehicle, so it is imperative that all the fixing points are used and suitably reinforced).


My 1975 model T2 Westy (that I grew up with, learned to drive in, and subsequently inherited) had factory rear lap belts bolted through the rear engine step - using this as my benchmark, I fitted lap belts to my first homebuilt camper on a T3 Caravelle chassis, and subsequently on the Tazzmobile (which is a panel van with a Reimo sliding seat system, bolted through the floor along the length of each track).


At the time of my build (2001) the luxury of the T5 Multivan seat with built in interia belts was not available - this has been a hot topic ever since the Forum's inception. Many have argued that the Multivan seat is the best option - and in many ways it is but it's monstorous weight and the potential projectile that it could become if it is not adequately fitted are drawbacks that need to be considered.


To illustrate this the Type Approved (for the T4) Reimo Variotech seat has four mounting points on each rail that correspond to the crossbeams under the van floor - the T5 seat rails have 18 fixing points a side, which don't tally with the crossbeams and have not been Type Approved for the T4 (neither has the the latest Reimo seat, by the way).


So my advice for anyone who has a wooden rock'n'roll seat fitted in any panel van is not to bother with seat belts...


... unless you are prepared to accept that your only realistic cheap option is to fit lap belts, which carry their own risk of abdominal injury.


As a father of two youngsters, I have accepted that risk but I must question whether those legally required booster seats actually hamper the function of the lap belt - at every opportunity they take turns to sit in the front whilst Mrs Tazz (or I :D) chills out in the back.
 
#6 ·
This may help..

Seatbelts and the law
(last updated June 2008)

We asked the Department for Transport for their interpretation on the law as it applies to seatbelts fitted in motorhomes, this article gives the essence of the information that they gave us:

The information below relates to the fitting of seatbelts and the wearing of seatbelts by adults. There is specific legislation, introduced in 2006, concerning the carrying of children in vehicles. Rather than trying to present all the somewhat complicated regulations here, please see: www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/campaigns/childcarseats/childcarseats.htm

For vehicles built up to Oxtober 2007 there was no legal requirement to have seat belts fitted to side-facing seats or seats that make up the accommodation area in motor caravans.
Regulation 46 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended, states motor caravans first used on or after 1st April 1982 but before 1 October 1988 shall be equipped with anchorage points for the driver's seat and specified passenger seat (if any); and for motor caravans first used on or after 1st October 1988 shall be equipped with anchorage points for the driver's seat and any forward-facing front seat.
You can download a copy of the SI at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2001/20011043.htm.
However, this did not preclude manufacturers fitting seat belts to forward facing or rearward facing seats within the accommodation area if they wished to do so.
Where seat belts are fitted they must be worn.

Seats in the rear of a campervan/motorhome did not, prior to October 2007, require seatbelts (whether forward, rearward or sideways facing) and it is not illegal to carry unrestrained passengers in them while travelling, providing the vehicle is not overloaded. It is not something we would recommend, however.

Although current seat belt wearing regulations do not currently prohibit carrying more passengers in vehicles than there are seat belts available, the police may prosecute drivers for carrying passengers in a manner that may injure someone.
We would advise that no-one should be carried in any unbelted seat in the rear of a motorhome.

An EU Directive (2005/40/EC) on the installation of seat belts required that from 20 October 2007 new vehicles have to have seat belts fitted on all seats except those seats intended solely for use when the vehicle is stationary.

Where seat belts are fitted, from May 2009, the seat belt wearing Directive will prevent more passengers being carried than there are seat belts in the rear of vehicles. This will mean that from May 2009, in any vehicle of whatever age, where seat belts are fitted in the rear, more passengers may not be carried in the rear than there are seat belts available.

The critical point for owners of older motorhomes is that it will not become illegal to carry passengers in the rear, provided that no seatbelts are fitted to any seats behind the driver and front passenger seats. Owners of any motorhome that has belts fitted to any seat in the rear will need to be aware that, from May 2009, it will be illegal to carry passengers in any unbelted seats.

The advisability of carrying unrestrained passengers is another matter, to quote the DfT spokesman:

'... the police can already act where people in the rear of any vehicle are considered to be carried in a dangerous manner because they are unrestrained. [Owners] should beware of unbelted passengers. In a crash, they can injure others in the vehicle ...'.

In addition to considering the legal and safety issues involved, owners who intend to carry passengers in unbelted seats must check with their insurers to confirm that this is acceptable to them.

Our advice is that, regardless of the letter of the law, all passengers should wear seat belts.

We are indebted to Rohan Pohl and Tom Norman from the Department for Transport for their time and patience in answering all our questions on this subject.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
#7 · (Edited)
"However, this did not preclude manufacturers fitting seat belts to forward facing or rearward facing seats within the accommodation area if they wished to do so.
Where seat belts are fitted they must be worn.

Seats in the rear of a campervan/motorhome did not, prior to October 2007, require seatbelts (whether forward, rearward or sideways facing) and it is not illegal to carry unrestrained passengers in them while travelling, providing the vehicle is not overloaded. It is not something we would recommend, however."


This is the bit where UK rules differs from EU rules. All new built "factory" Motor Caravans (i.e Westfalia, Autosleeper, Bilbos) were required to have seat belts fitted to all forward facing seats from September 2001 - this was the main reason why all the converters favoured the long nosed Caravelle chassis, although they did not object to converting panel vans.


Currently, the rub concerns carrying children under 3 years old - they must be sat in a suitable seat that is secured to the vehicle - either by seat belt or Isofix (late Caravelles, Californias and Multivans had an Isofix option).


So, if you have no seat belts in the back you can't have your bambinos in the back - but you can if they are three and older...


... from something I prepared earlier


... European Type Approval legislation dictated that, in all "factory" Motor Caravans, newly built after September 2001, fully retractable three point restraints of some description and/or a central lap belt had to be fitted to each forward and rear facing seating position - but not side-facing seats. This ties in with legislation applying to all minibuses with up to nine seats since 1996, when EU rules aligned with existing UK coach law - from September 2001 all minibuses with over nine forward facing seats do require fully retractable seat belts on each seat. Despite all this, all self-built van conversions are not required to have seat belts fitted in the rear quarters - however...


... current EU law does dictate that all child passengers up to 3 years old must be restrained with a suitable child seat which must be attached to the vehicle. (Up until recently, this is the only motor vehicle legislation that has ever been introduced retrospectively, i.e it applies to all vehicles old and new - therefore, if there are no seat belts present at all a child under 3 years old cannot travel in the vehicle).
  • If seat belts are present then it is the driver's responsibility to ensure that all occupants are restrained. Since 18th September 2006 children between 3 and 12 (or 135cms) in height must have the aid of a booster seat. (Prior to this booster seats were not compulsory and the age limit was 11 or 150cms height.)
  • But, if seat belts are not present children from 3 years old and adults do not have to be restrained at all. (We only include this point just to "clarify" the UK law!!!)
 
#8 ·
hey!

i've just bought my first camper. its a 1992 private conversion, it has the standard 3 seats in the front all with belts and in the rear it has a hand made bench that folds down to make the bed! there are no seat belts fitted in the rear

just because i'm still really unclear as to the legality of it all. can i drive with 2 people sat in the back unbelted? and if i cant how hard is it to make it legal?

sorry if this has been answered already! i'm just a bit confused by it all and would rather not be caught by jonny law in the wrong!
 
#13 ·
so i have two seats with seatbelts in the back of my ex aa t4, and they are obviously a road legal way of carrying passengers in the back, but are incroaching on my modification plans. if i was to remove them in favour for a bench/bed type seat i would build myself, would it be illegal? (obviously not smart, but it would be used minimally as a seat in comparison to the bed) i do need the option of carrying up to 3 in the back from time to time, and dont want to be breaking the law when i do. please help me guys!!
 
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