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  #11  
Old 13-12-10, 13:40
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colese colese is offline
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

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Originally Posted by steve71075 View Post
i don't have spigot rings or hubcentric spacers to fit porsche wheels to mine and have no wobbles , my wheels are still on after 4k and i'm alive .

if you tighten the wheels up in the proper sequence and work your way up to the final torgue in smaller torques they will be fine . all the spigot rings do is centralise the wheel while fitting .
sorry mate you are wrong!!

the spigots and hub lip is where the wheel sits upon..the wheel bolts only hold the wheel on..not using spigot rings,puts full van weight on your wheel bolts..

i agree that not torqueing wheels is the largest reason for wheels coming a drift..and as the same as you,i know people who have run with no spigots and have been fine..

but spigots should be fitted and for the sake of 8 on ebay..dont not fit..

as for hubcentric spacers..upto 5mm is ok..hubcentric is my opinion for anything wider and longer wheel bolts..

simon.

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  #12  
Old 13-12-10, 13:57
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

if the spigot rings were made from metal then yes i would agree , but i can't see 3-4mm of plastic taking the weight of a t4 ?
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  #13  
Old 13-12-10, 13:58
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

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Originally Posted by steve71075 View Post
i don't have spigot rings or hubcentric spacers to fit porsche wheels to mine and have no wobbles , my wheels are still on after 4k and i'm alive .

if you tighten the wheels up in the proper sequence and work your way up to the final torgue in smaller torques they will be fine . all the spigot rings do is centralise the wheel while fitting .
Sorry mate, but that's possibly the worst safety related advice I've seen on here

As Si said above. The wheel bolts are not supposed to hold the weight of the van.
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  #14  
Old 13-12-10, 14:20
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

Been wondering about this myself.
When I bought new 17" alloys, they came with rings...but the ones I took off (15", and as far as I know have been on the van for 10 years) didn't!!!
Made it easy to get the wheels off, but a pain to fit back (trying to hold the wheel in the right place whilst getting the 1st bolt lined up).

I'm now using the old 15" alloys with winter tyres fitted....and thunking heavily about if I should remove one and do some measurings up?!?!
Never noticed any problems...BUT
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  #15  
Old 13-12-10, 14:31
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

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Originally Posted by steve71075 View Post
if the spigot rings were made from metal then yes i would agree , but i can't see 3-4mm of plastic taking the weight of a t4 ?
Compressed between he hub and the wheel, as long as the spigot ring doesn't deform it's transferring the weight how it is supposed to.
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  #16  
Old 13-12-10, 15:44
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

ok , so if remove your wheel bolts and replace them with non-tapered bolts that locate on the outer lip of the wheels and drive about with your plastic spigot rings would you expect to see any damage to the spigot rings when you remove the wheel ? i would , because now the spigot ring is taking the full weight of the van and being the best part of 2 tonne , i just can not see 3-4mm of plastic cutting the mustard . they will be flattened and your wheels will be wobbling if they are still on . unless they are machined from good quality metal and are of interference fit .

the design of a wheel bolt is tapered to fit the wheel which in turn will centralise the wheel to the hub , you may say that it is not taking any weight , they are just there to centralise and stop the wheel coming away from the hub due to sideways movement or shear forces when you brake or accelerate .

but then once your wheel is torqued up and the van is down of the jack . i'd say the tapered part of the bolt sitting tight against the tapererd part of the wheel which has been torqued to say 140lb ft will have a lot tighter fit than your spigot ring which is just a push fit into the back of the wheel would be .

quick sketch on paint , but if you look a the picture i would say the vast majority of the vans weight would be here on the taper of the wheel bolt marked a + b whether you have a spigot ring fitted or not due to clamping force provided by the wheel bolt torque not allowing the wheel to move up or down . the only way to transfer the weight on to a spigot ring would be to loosen the wheel bolts or fit ones with incorrect or no taper to them



steve
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  #17  
Old 13-12-10, 15:55
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

Spiggots are designed as a centralising tool more than holding the weight of the van, thats why they are plastic. Its a hell of a lot easier to fit the wheel with correct spiggots then without them and you wont get judder or imbalance. It does act as a fail safe support for the wheel in the rare occasion you might lose most of your wheel bolts.

I would (A) Fit spiggots and (B) ensure you have the correct wheel bolts for the wheels you are fitting to be 100% safe. Alloys are a sticky wicket anyway on vans unless they are commercially rated and boring, but incorrectly fitted ones are a liability
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  #18  
Old 13-12-10, 16:09
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

Seems to me....JJ has just summed it all up!

(Was having trouble understanding how a plastic ring, that is NOT an "interference" fit, could possibly take the wieght of the van....if it was "pressed" on, yeah, maybe...but then, who'd ever manage to change a wheel?)
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  #19  
Old 13-12-10, 16:33
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMMYJAMES View Post
Spiggots are designed as a centralising tool more than holding the weight of the van, thats why they are plastic. Its a hell of a lot easier to fit the wheel with correct spiggots then without them and you wont get judder or imbalance. It does act as a fail safe support for the wheel in the rare occasion you might lose most of your wheel bolts.

I would (A) Fit spiggots and (B) ensure you have the correct wheel bolts for the wheels you are fitting to be 100% safe. Alloys are a sticky wicket anyway on vans unless they are commercially rated and boring, but incorrectly fitted ones are a liability
x2

Not fitting them is not safe.. Steve i think you have been lucky in your 4k to not have any problems. Again for the sake of a few quid fit them and if it makes you feal better buy the metal ones
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  #20  
Old 13-12-10, 17:30
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colese colese is offline
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Default Re: spigot rings or no spigot rings that is the question

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71075 View Post
ok , so if remove your wheel bolts and replace them with non-tapered bolts that locate on the outer lip of the wheels and drive about with your plastic spigot rings would you expect to see any damage to the spigot rings when you remove the wheel ? i would , because now the spigot ring is taking the full weight of the van and being the best part of 2 tonne , i just can not see 3-4mm of plastic cutting the mustard . they will be flattened and your wheels will be wobbling if they are still on . unless they are machined from good quality metal and are of interference fit .

the design of a wheel bolt is tapered to fit the wheel which in turn will centralise the wheel to the hub , you may say that it is not taking any weight , they are just there to centralise and stop the wheel coming away from the hub due to sideways movement or shear forces when you brake or accelerate .

but then once your wheel is torqued up and the van is down of the jack . i'd say the tapered part of the bolt sitting tight against the tapererd part of the wheel which has been torqued to say 140lb ft will have a lot tighter fit than your spigot ring which is just a push fit into the back of the wheel would be .

quick sketch on paint , but if you look a the picture i would say the vast majority of the vans weight would be here on the taper of the wheel bolt marked a + b whether you have a spigot ring fitted or not due to clamping force provided by the wheel bolt torque not allowing the wheel to move up or down . the only way to transfer the weight on to a spigot ring would be to loosen the wheel bolts or fit ones with incorrect or no taper to them



steve
spigots are designed to be fitted when the centre bore of the wheel is too large for your hub...you are corrct saying that they do not take all the weight,fo course the bolts take some....

not going to get into a argument with you...but the spigot is designed to be there..

please do not listen to the above advice,for the sake of 7 fit them..

no one would ever leave my premises wityhout them fitted...

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