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Old 03-10-14, 15:16
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LawAnderson LawAnderson is offline
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T4 Post Icon MSA15 to EDC15.

I've taken so much from the forum which I can't thank everyone enough for and not really given anything back; so I'm hoping this progress thread will evolve into a how to once I'm done. so here we go.

I'll add more photos ASAP.

So you've completed the tdi conversion, everything's running sweet but are at odds as to what to do next? How about an audacious EDC15 and cluster swap to make flashing just that little bit easier?

So far I've realised that you'll need the following:

EDC15VM+ ECU - To make life easier, it's best to take one from a vehicle with a turbo type the same as what you're running. I've gone for on from an ALH as I'm running a GT18V on my 1Z. The AGR has a wastegated turbo so that should work easiest for the AHU and standard 1Z guys. Get as much as possible of the wiring loom to the ECU as possible.
CAN based cluster - the mk4 Golf and Passat B5.5 are good for these.
Separate integrated MAP/IAT sensor
MAF (optional)
Variable code immo coil reader (optional)
ID44 transponder chip (optional)
ECU and cluster EEPROM dumps
SKC from old and new cluster (if applicable)

The immo stuff is only required if you're not planning on having it deleted. This is definitely the recommended route, but I can't deal with the beep and the immobiliser warning on the dash.

I initially started by fitting my test cluster (immo 3 job from eBay) in order to check my MFA stalk. Given that I already had blue clocks this was quite painless. If you're running the older style green clocks, you'll need a T4 wiring harness for the later clocks as a starting point. If you have an MFA cluster, check that you have the fuel consumption and ambient air temp signal lines populated in the green 32 pin connector. If not, add them. It's also probably best to add the two twisted pairs for the CAN data input and output at this point.

Once these are in, the first thing to do is to change the coding of the CAN gateway to 00000. Use channel 19 in VCDS. This should get rid of the airbag light.



I changed the SKC and VIN within the cluster at this point, but I'll cover that at a later point.

It has been noted that the fuel sender signal on the Golf/Passat is then inverse to that of the T4. I haven't had this issue, but will check with the Bora sport cluster when it turns up.

Now to the business end.



Given that the ALH is fairly similar to the older TDIs engines (VP37 fuel pump albeit with the 10 pin connector) most of the sensors match up. I can't stress how helpful the wiring diagrams for the two ECUs are, but that being said this thread http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=3491009 (notably the link from struikie, post #48) has been invaluable.

If you have a look at the spreadsheet, you'll notice that the MAF pins have no corresponding connection on the new ECU. I'll include the details for the old MAF when I get home.

It's best to start with all the 12V (switched and otherwise), relay 109, ground and K-line wires first. This will allow you to check whether the ECU itself works an to check for any existing errors on the unit:

MSA15 -> EDC15

pin 1 -> pin 5 (ground)
pin 24 -> pin 4 (ground)
pin 23 -> pin 2 (engine control relay)
pin 38 -> pin 37 (ignition sw.)
pin 42 -> pin 18 (engine control relay)
pin 45 -> pin 1 (engine control relay)
pin 46 -> pin 86 (ground)
pin 61 -> pin 16 (k-line)
pin 68 -> pin 88 (switched 12V)



You should be able to read the maps over the K-line at this point (if you have the relevant HW/SW):



To be continued as I'm leaving work in a minute!

Last edited by LawAnderson; 03-10-14 at 15:23.
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  #2  
Old 06-10-14, 00:03
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LawAnderson LawAnderson is offline
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Default Re: MSA15 to EDC15.

Right. So i have it mostly wired up, using as much of the old loom as possible and have hit my first proper snag. The new MAP sensor will be removed completely from the old circuit, hopefully that will cure the G72 short and boost pressure sensor issue.



The original wiring seems to star a lot of grounds and could be the cause of some of these issues (as well as the non functioning clutch switch). I'm ignoring all of the fuel pump issues for the moment as I'm a bit lost as to the fact that the MSA15 has three lines for the QA as opposed to the two of the EDC15.

I also feel that this could be the reason as to why the TPS maxes out at 50.6%.

One thing I do have to ask is, does anyone happen to know where pin 2 of the coolant temp sensor goes? I seem to have a broken line that i hadn't noticed in the past (might explain some of the poor running in the past)

(Edit - pin 2 has to go to the cluster (ground), right? Looks like I'll be spending the next dry evening separating all the grounds!)

Last edited by LawAnderson; 06-10-14 at 00:20.
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Old 06-10-14, 08:48
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d-9 d-9 is offline
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Default Re: MSA15 to EDC15.

Pm me if you need wiring diagrams for this ecu - let me know the make/model/year of the donor. What tools are you using for reading/writing the ecu and EPROMs?
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  #4  
Old 06-10-14, 09:52
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LawAnderson LawAnderson is offline
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Default Re: MSA15 to EDC15.

That'd be grand. I have an excerpt from the Bentley skoda manual but am missing a few pins and the entire mk4 manual in PDF is far to cumbersome (it takes an age to old up pages on the tablet). You don't happen to have one for the 68 pin MSA15? I've got the 80 pin, but that's no good to me.

For read/writes I've got access to MPPS, and K+CAN Commander as well as a few tools that work with the dumb VCDS cable (VAG EEPROM Programmer - which I believe you pointed me in the direction of)
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Old 06-10-14, 10:23
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Default Re: MSA15 to EDC15.

No worries, just let me know aproximate make/model/year and I'll see what I can do. (I use a ebay copy of elsawin for most wiring diagrams, and vw erwin when my elsawin is missing stuff).

Tip: if you want to get your mk4 pdf down to a more manageable size, install a free pdf writer on your PC, and print the pages of the manual you want to it. Ive done this with the T4 manual on my ipad.
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  #6  
Old 07-10-14, 12:58
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LawAnderson LawAnderson is offline
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Default Re: MSA15 to EDC15.

Thanks for the diagrams, I think I'll be best off wiring individual earths where needed and separate the lines to the fuel pump. Luckily I've a full harness from the ECU to the fuel pump from an AGR, which I'll nick some lines from.

I am miffed about the throttle though, the resistances are different, but do fall within the allowable tolerances so I would expect it not max out at 50.6% . I might source a newer style one and be done with that if I can figure out a way to mount it.
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  #7  
Old 07-10-14, 23:11
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LawAnderson LawAnderson is offline
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Default Re: MSA15 to EDC15.

Right. So the pump's been rewired and that seems to have cleared most of the codes in relation to that.



After direct wiring the MAP sensor to the ECU I'm beginning to think that the sensor itself is duff. Getting 5.12V at pin 2 (IAT). I'll order a new one in the morning and see if that changes anything. As for the coolant temp sensor, I'm inclined to think that the old style black sensor is incompatible with this ECU (G27 as opposed to G62). In addition to this there is an intermittent DTC for the N109 shut off solenoid. The other worrying thing is the fact that the aftermarket immobiliser LED on the dash doesn't seem to do anything as before when the key is turned (I haven't attempted a start as of yet).

As for N239 (vac. recirculation valve), I'll cross that bridge in due course. There must be a way to code it out in the flash.
It goes on...

Last edited by LawAnderson; 07-10-14 at 23:18.
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  #8  
Old 10-10-14, 12:27
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LawAnderson LawAnderson is offline
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Default Re: MSA15 to EDC15.

As usual, the coolant temp sensor issue was down to the multiplug. I had though about this, but still went ahead and bought a new temp sender. You can never have enough spares I guess.

The IAT/MAP sensor in the other hand is still a source of issue:



New sensor in, wiring direct to the ECU and still the two (g72 short to plus and boost pressure) codes prevail. Given that I have intermittent codes on the brake switch monitoring, I do wonder if the the two circuits are part of a series ground (that would be mental is so) internally to the unit. Unfortunately, there are no ECU schematics anywhere. (EDIT - there is continuity between the ground pins of G71/72, N109 and F47, but these also have continuity with the main ground junctions. Balls.)

As for removing the Sigma SG20, this looks like it could be the more difficult of all the tasks I'm facing.

Last edited by LawAnderson; 10-10-14 at 12:52.
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  #9  
Old 10-10-14, 15:38
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LawAnderson LawAnderson is offline
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Default Re: MSA15 to EDC15.

PROGRESS.

Wiring an independent ground to the TPS seems to have cleared the boost pressure and IAT issues. Why, I have no idea especially as the MAP sensor had been isolated already (they share a ground with a million other things on the MSA15.)



All the CANBUS issues are being ignored along with the immobiliser one as I haven't dealt with all that yet. The one issue that is winding me up is the brake switch. The clutch switch appears to be short to 12V, even when disconnected, which leads me to believe that it's a wiring 'issue'. Ideally I'd upgrade to the newer style switch, but these do not fit within the T4 pedal box.

On another note, is there a way of removing this spacer without removing the ignition barrel (bar taking a grinder to it):

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Old 10-10-14, 16:05
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Default Re: MSA15 to EDC15.

Law - on the 1.8t I managed to make ME7.5 work happily with the T4 brake switches, which is nice because everything just clips straight into the standard brackets and stuff, I figured it would be easier if stuff broke in the future. I would imagine that you can do the same for MSA.

Which spacer do you need? Btw, you can use the T4 immo pickup ring with the newer cluster-based immobilisers, just ignore or earth the shield wire.
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