[DC Dan]

Good evening looking for some advice, I have 2009 T5 174. Been having a few issues lately. I have a lumpy idle and it feels down on power. Live data indicates injector 5 is 2.99 which I know it out of range. It doesn’t always go 2.99 but when rough running it does. I am going to change the injector loom and replace all 5 injectors with recon ones. just Wondered if any one had any experience on similar
Dan

 

[gtijames]

I'd be getting you injectors gone over by a decent diesel specialist but check the camshaft for wear while the rocker cover is off as that could cause the symptoms you described too

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[DC Dan]

I have ordered recon injectors from a reputable outfit. I understand these engines suffer with cam wear but surely if it was down to cam wear the symptoms would be consistent.
really appreciate you coming back to me

Dan

 

[gtijames]

Yes does sound like a injector issue and have know them fail, not saying it is the camshaft but worth a good check while the tops off. Don't forget new seal kits if the injectors don't already have them and also bolts to hold injectors down.
Are you replacing them yourself? Manual or auto?

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[DC Dan]

Yes does sound like a injector issue and have know them fail, not saying it is the camshaft but worth a good check while the tops off. Don't forget new seal kits if the injectors don't already have them and also bolts to hold injectors down.
Are you replacing them yourself? Manual or auto?

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Apparently the injectors come with new seals. Getting a genuine wiring loom and bolts. It’s a manual van.
I will be doing it myself, I was a mechanic for 15 years and have done loads timing belts on the VW where you take the front end off. Just never done any PD injectors
Have you done these injectors before ? If so do they come out of the head relatively easy

 

[gtijames]

Had a few engines apart and injectors out, pretty straight forward once the inlet manifold is removed etc
Rocker off then injector rocker shaft, unbolt and remove clamp and a gentle wiggle/pry out side to side. Check for wear round the sides of the injector bores
Grease the new injector seals before installing then torque bolts installing rocker shaft and setting up injector lash one by one

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[DC Dan]

Had a few engines apart and injectors out, pretty straight forward once the inlet manifold is removed etc
Rocker off then injector rocker shaft, unbolt and remove clamp and a gentle wiggle/pry out side to side. Check for wear round the sides of the injector bores
Grease the new injector seals before installing then torque bolts installing rocker shaft and setting up injector lash one by one

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Yeah I heard the bores can be worn, is there a fix for that if the the head is worn or is it a new head?
sorry for all the questions just good to get a heads up before I start

 

[festa]

Injector bore wear can be from 110k miles onwards. They wear from the rocking of the injector and wears the bore on the opposite side to the fixing. It's normally a new head but you could also try an injector frame which is available and reduces the rocking.
I would also say camshaft as the followers fail and hold the valves open every so so you have a low compression issue.

 

[DC Dan]

Injector bore wear can be from 110k miles onwards. They wear from the rocking of the injector and wears the bore on the opposite side to the fixing. It's normally a new head but you could also try an injector frame which is available and reduces the rocking.
I would also say camshaft as the followers fail and hold the valves open every so so you have a low compression issue.

If the bores are worn does that not allow fuel to mix with the oil?
What are the cams like to do. Trying to work out if it’s worth doing the injectors which I can see in live data one is out of spec and at the same time doing the cams.

 

[festa]

If the bores are worn does that not allow fuel to mix with the oil?
What are the cams like to do. Trying to work out if it’s worth doing the injectors which I can see in live data one is out of spec and at the same time doing the cams.

When you take the top off you should be able to see the camshaft lobes...the followers are there but a bit harder to see properly. You don't need to remove injectors to do canshaft and equaly both can give the same readings for injector quality. Injectors to get checked are around £35 each which is cheaper than replacing them at £150 each. Why not just swap over the bad injector to a good injector to see if the fault follows as that way you'll know

 

[DC Dan]

When you take the top off you should be able to see the camshaft lobes...the followers are there but a bit harder to see properly. You don't need to remove injectors to do canshaft and equaly both can give the same readings for injector quality. Injectors to get checked are around £35 each which is cheaper than replacing them at £150 each. Why not just swap over the bad injector to a good injector to see if the fault follows as that way you'll know

I did think about moving the injector around to see if the fault moves with the injector.
I didn’t realise the cam can also give thr bad readings as well. I was hoping it was just the injector.
I have a shudder as well when accelerating between 1 and 2 thousand revs which I put down to the injectors and loom. It only does it once it warms up.
going to all the trouble of taking the front off and getting to the engine I just want to get it sorted maybe it’s best to do all of the weak links. Do you guys do all your own repairs or do you go to a garage ?

 

[festa]

Do you guys do all your own repairs or do you go to a garage ?

Got fed up with garages telling you what they think and changing parts ***** nilly....I can do that, so no I don't use a garage. Only places I use is a local machine shop to do my block work as I have destroyed my engine a few times but then I'm pushing a lot more the wrong side of 175bhp. I also have built a few T5 5 pot engines for some friends of mine which are now in exess of 30k and again are over 250bhp. You tend to get a feel for a few faults.

 

[DC Dan]

Sounds like you know your way around the T5 engine then. Going to take the rocker off mine tomorrow and have a look and see if I can see what’s going on.
changing the camshaft and followers what is like to do? I was looking at some of the timing tool kits. So many cheap ones online but if I am going to change the cam I want a decent kit

 

[baxmant5]

I replaced a camshaft on my BPC last year. I now have some problems with fumes and smoke, so suspect it might have injector issues.
Good luck with yours. I can lend you a camshaft locking kit if you are near Nottingham.

 

[DC Dan]

I replaced a camshaft on my BPC last year. I now have some problems with fumes and smoke, so suspect it might have injector issues.
Good luck with yours. I can lend you a camshaft locking kit if you are near Nottingham.

What was your symptoms before you done the camshaft?
how did you find the job.
thanks for the messages

 

[baxmant5]

What was your symptoms before you done the camshaft?
how did you find the job.
thanks for the messages

I had a hole in the top of one hydraulic tappet so the valve was not opening causing a loud popping sound.
It took me several days to complete the job, but nothing too difficult if you have a good toolbox - especially torx bits of different lengths to remove the top turbo bolt and short hex keys for the crankshaft end cover. Good luck.

 

[DC Dan]

I had a hole in the top of one hydraulic tappet so the valve was not opening causing a loud popping sound.
It took me several days to complete the job, but nothing too difficult if you have a good toolbox - especially torx bits of different lengths to remove the top turbo bolt and short hex keys for the crankshaft end cover. Good luck.
[/QUOTE

 

[DC Dan]

Evening Gents, I got the rocker cover off Saturday, wasn’t too bad to get apart if I am honest. The cam looked ok struggle to see the lifters if I am honest.
before I took apart I did a drive with the diagnostics attached so I could see the live data. The only thing I could see that wasn’t right was number 5 injector it would eventually go to 2.99 not always but it did go up and down.
I also have p2196 fault code which is lambda stuck rich/lean which points to the injector.
if I have a failing lifter would this cause the-same Symptom .
Before it all goes back together just debating if should buy the sealy locking tool and do the cams and lifters.
if it was timing belt or chain I would dive straight in but I have never done one of these gear engines done loads of belts and chains

thanks for all your help