VW T4 Forum - VW T5 Forum banner

321 - 340 of 1065 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter #321
Welcome to club 200 mate A:
Cheers bud... what are you running at the mo?

It was a lot of work James but worth the effort, we already have a proven track record with T3 engine mods but thanks for the opportunity to stretch that to a T4
And nice signature by the way :)
Indeed mate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter #325
Most do, mine was around 203-204 whp last time when it was built, don't worry you'll be chasing when I can get it setup correctly and mapped ;)

There are only 2, 3 at the most with over 200whp
Get it mapped!!!

Then I will take you up on the dyno challenge I:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter #326 (Edited)
Bit of a more detailed post about the trip to Viezu.


Arrived as a DB9 was being removed from the rolling road, make way for some REAL power... LOL:



4x4 rolling road. One of the best setups I have seen.
Clean, well laid-out, no cables laying around everywhere. Very organised, visitor friendly...









Firmly bolted down... :D



Drive wheels sit ON the roller, rather than "between" them.
Something to do with a more accurate power reading.
So your figures can be quite a bit lower than other rollers, but much more accurate for real world driving.







Also bolted on the front tow eye and also on both sides.
Safety first.







Easy view of all the info you need, right from the drivers seat.


Ready.... Steady....


Can also see all you need from outside the room. Quieter, cooler and plenty of seats for lazy viewers, like me I:


Crazy complex electric engines/dynos.... Top of the range apparently.










First run was as stock. i.e. with no alteration to the AXG ECU, just running it exactly as I drove it down after the mods.


You can see that the power was coming in VERY early, peaking, then dropping, then doing the same thing again.


This was explained that the ECU has a power limiter on it for saftey.
So the power was hitting this limit and the power was being cut, then powering back up and hitting it a second time, then the power being cut once more (This is dynamic vs revs) before creeping up again.

Downloading the map from the ECU
All download/upload was done via the ODBII port, which was great as the ECU could stay burred under the leisure batteries. Apparently my old ACV ECU may not have done this.


The download took a LONG time, about 20 mins!
Then the uploads were taking about 6-7 mins. We tried 8 maps till we were happy, with the map writing taking an hour the first time, then gradually coming down to about 20 mins. Was a long day but worth is for a fully custom map.

Plenty of fans to keep everything cool. Was a HOT day yesterday. But everything stayed pretty cool.
Only had an issue with heat soak at about 15:00 when it was VERY hot outside and we did 5 fastboost runs, one after another.
10 mins later (while waiting for another map alteration) she was cool again.
VERY happy with how cold the Chargecooler is staying.
Who ever says they don't work have never used one and/or never used one on a good setup with a decent size/performance radiator.














"The Dream Room"
We chatted about how we wanted the van to perform and what I wanted to achieve from the day in there.
I was kind of told that Viezu are NOT about figures and just power, power, power.... but about the smoothest power curves and keeping the motor safe and stable.
Which is exactly what I wanted. :cool:


Whiteboard in the "Dream Room" was used for explaining what work was being done on the ECU and how the different lookup tables were being altered to achieve the desired result. Which is much harder than only altering the actual map but gives much better results long term.




A couple of maps were.... errr... a little dirty ... :eek:


But, to make an omelette, you have to break some eggs! H:

The final verdict was that my 'limitation' on the power output (IF I wanted to do higher) was the turbo feed.
Basically, at full chatter, even the HUGE AXG airbox and airbox to turbo pipe-work just can't give the turbo the air it can use fast enough at full spool.
Not a massive problem, as the map has been written to only power to the air it can get.
But even something simple like drilling a few holes in the air-box on the entry side should allow more air to come in.
Long term I will look into enlarging the pipework into and out of the airbox to help with this.

Also, due to the higher temps in the engine bay, we found that although the chargecooler was staying at a good temperature, the silicon hoses were getting VERY hot and retaining that heat.
Mario's plan was always to replace the silicone setup with a full solid piped setup long term. Wrapped with heat shield wrap, this will not only reduce the heat soak but also take out all the flex from the all ready "instant" turbo spool.
There is "NO" turbo lag. :cool:

All in all, had a fantastic day. Can't recommend Viezu enough.
Professional, honest, open.... took their time to explain every step and how the maps were running.
Sounds silly but everyone was wearing uniforms and everyone had a high knowledge of how everything worked, so if your assigned specialist was busy working on a map, you could ask another employee questions and they would always know the answers. Just made the whole experience that more interesting and felt like you were getting value for money. :)

Very impressed. A:

And again, one more shout out to Keith for the fantastic job he did on the injectors and fuel pump. As well as sorting and coming with me on the trip to Veizu.
Apparently most motors run out of fuel before anything else. with this setup, there is no WAY I can run out of fuel.

And of course, a big thanks to Mazz and Daz from MV Engineering for all his hard work, research and implementation.
And also putting up with me turning up with a "What is going on next" question four or five times a day!!! LOL:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Those are nice results ! I drove a few cars with Viezu maps and they were very, very nice ! Pity they are encripted so i could not see their fueling and boost maps ! I do however like to drive on the continent at high speed so dyno run is not always the same as on the roads condition but it looks like they are doing great ! Did they give you a copy of the original map of the old ECU ? i am interested on a few maps (SOI, driver's wish and boost/n75 modulation for the VNT turbo). It's so much easier to start with original map and tweak as you go along ! What year is your t4 ? 2001 onwards can be flashed trough OBD port, early ones require soldering chips/sockets on the PCB and emulator for a true, custom tune...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
I wonder how well the AXG manifold flows compared to the one i bought, mine does not have separate runners lik yours but looks a little more compact ! Well, i will try and fit it to the van next week, once i have the turbo off my allroad- need to source new oil feed and drain pipes as i believe they might not fit ! I will keep you posted, meanwhile happy motoring !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter #329 (Edited)
Those are nice results ! I drove a few cars with Viezu maps and they were very, very nice ! Pity they are encripted so i could not see their fueling and boost maps ! I do however like to drive on the continent at high speed so dyno run is not always the same as on the roads condition but it looks like they are doing great ! Did they give you a copy of the original map of the old ECU ? i am interested on a few maps (SOI, driver's wish and boost/n75 modulation for the VNT turbo). It's so much easier to start with original map and tweak as you go along ! What year is your t4 ? 2001 onwards can be flashed trough OBD port, early ones require soldering chips/sockets on the PCB and emulator for a true, custom tune...
Yeah, this is a camper, so we won't be nailing it high speeds through Europe, we will be cruising and stopping to admire the views ;)

All the maps have been stored (including the original AXG ECU they started with) so I "could" swap and change them any time I liked.
Specially as Keith at United Diesel is a distributor and is only a few miles up the road from me in Shrewsbury.
He can re-flash the ECU any time I would want him too. Just not sure why I would?

The T4 was built in 1999, with the 2000 spec. Which is why we were slightly worried about accessing the ECU over ODBII, as you quite rightly said 2001 onwards is the line in the sand.
But the ECU is from a 2003 AXG. So we think that is why it worked so well. Just were not 100% sure if the loom would support it.
Very happy it did. :ILU:

And VERY glad I didn't have to do a "True, custom tune" as you put it, as I used to work with PCBs as a Fruit Machine software engineer for Bally Gaming. They were a RIGHT PITA!!! :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter #330
I wonder how well the AXG manifold flows compared to the one i bought, mine does not have separate runners lik yours but looks a little more compact ! Well, i will try and fit it to the van next week, once i have the turbo off my allroad- need to source new oil feed and drain pipes as i believe they might not fit ! I will keep you posted, meanwhile happy motoring !
What Mani did you get?

The AXG is supposed to be "the best" just because it was designed for the turbo on the higher specc'd 151ps Eurovan.

But, saying that, I wasn't aware of anything else that would fit.... what do you have? Very interesting! T:


Honestly, the "Bum Dyno" is off the charts right now. Going to be a while before I need to make any serious alterations.
Also need to sort the brakes before then!!!! I:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Part Number -
074253031T
Description -
EXHAUST MANIFOLD

PART IS NEW OLD DEALER STOCK

Application Guide* -
TRANSPORTER T4 2003 MODEL YEAR (70) 5-CYLINDER DIESEL ENGINE WITH ENGINE CODES - AHY, AXG

TRANSPORTER SYNCRO T4 1996-03 MODEL YEARS (70) 5-CYLINDER DIESEL ENGINE WITH ENGINE CODE - AXL

Manufacturers RRP -
£269.27
Parts Depot Price -
ONLY £125!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter #334
Very strange.....

I am no manifold expert... but I think the smoother and shallower the pipe curves the better? :*
Suppose only a side by side, bolt on bolt off rolling road run would be able to tell the difference between them...

I paid €100 for mine... well €200 for the inlet and exhaust, delivered from Germany.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
In your case the manifold is supposed to isolate the pulses from each injector/piston firing, however cast iron exhaust manifolds retain heat but are much more resilient at cracking due to repetitive heating/cooling cycles. A nice smooth mandrel bent manifold will do much better at flowing the exhaust gases trough the turbo but it's hard to build right + it crack's often. The manifold i have is quite a nice cast but it could benefit with a little bit of porting. I reckon VAG just got lazy and just upped the boost a little on later models in order to save on costs. The advantage with mine will be ease to install- hopefully !
 

·
T4 2.5 TDi 2003 SWB
Joined
·
4,456 Posts
I don't think I'm worthy enough to be posting in this thread, but I have to say what a set up those guys at Viezu have. jim, your coverage of the whole procedure including your explanation of what was happening was superb ...... loved it T:

It just goes to show the true potential of these motors.

Very interesting reading guys T:


Reminded me of an F1 team ........ uniforms n all !




TURK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter #337
Cheers Turk.

Your current project is WAY beyond pretty much anyone on this forum... or someone would have done it a long time ago!!!


Emailed Simon at Viezu and he has sent me a "before and after" PDF. Showing what the power looked like on the standard ECU vs the new remap.
Bit of a difference... :D

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
That manifold looks very different to the one we fitted, all the ports flowed into turbo flange. Should have a photo of it somewhere
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter #339
That manifold looks very different to the one we fitted, all the ports flowed into turbo flange. Should have a photo of it somewhere
he he he ... Mazz, this thread has photo's of EVERYTHING in it.... Just scroll back a few hundred posts ;)

Mine:










vs

Adamss24:


Pretty different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
That manifold looks very different to the one we fitted, all the ports flowed into turbo flange. Should have a photo of it somewhere
Yes, i know but it's the right part from VW ! They must have changed the part at some time ! Rest assured, i used the log manifold on the 1.9 and 2.0tdi with very good results when coupled with a larger turbo ! It only needs a little port matching and it will flow just fine...



 
321 - 340 of 1065 Posts
Top