VW T4 Forum - VW T5 Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi forum members,
I have owned the same T4 for the past 16 years and it has been great - always started and run perfectly - it done just over 50k miles.
My nearest VW commercial garage has replaced the belts for the 3rd time in its life only this time they've done something wrong.
It's gone from a smooth running, easy starting van, to one that doesn't like starting, won't rev until the engine is warm and when it does rev there are clouds of blue smoke from the exhaust. The engine is really banging when starting from cold but once hot the engine runs fine but doesn't like starting after being stopped for 10 min or so.
They claim they have redone the timing again but can't sort out the problem - I quote "there is no computer diagnostics with such an old vehicle".
Any suggestions as to what they have done wrong.
Wrong injection timing is the obvious one but why the blue smoke?
Regards,
T44ages
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
74 Posts
Don’t use it and get a mobile vw mechanic round. It’s perfectly possible they put the cambelt on incorrectly like mine. They are wrong about diagnostics too and a laptop is needed to do the belts.
Have a quick read of this
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
74 Posts
Just a guess, but if your cambelt was put on one tooth out, like mine, and it was the other 'side' of correct, then your engine would be fundamentally retarded and not advanced like mine. This would certainly make starting very difficult.

The garage will have set the 'pump timing' up correctly according to their tippex marks, but that means zip if the main belts have been screwed up, as I found out myself.

I still don't know how much damage may have been done and it's a real pisser when an official VW garage screws up a good motor. (At inflated cost too!)

Sorry, no good news.

You haven't commented, but I'm sure you'll find that looking up BLUE smoke is an indication of a significant problem whereby oil is getting into the combustion chamber. You may be looking at an insurance claim.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
Certainly sounds like the timing has been messed up as they have told you "there are no computer diagnostics on such an old vehicle". Strange though as they have done the belts before without problems but maybe they were lucky on the other occasions. They should know that the TDI needs the timing setting using appropriate equipment/software.

As the shankalanks has said, I'd get that checked as I've witnessed a van with incorrect timing, running fine and then being left for 20 minutes then wouldn't re start afterwards until the timing was adjusted.

The blue smoke is more than likely unburnt fuel due to incorrect timing but I've found these engines can produce blue smoke for instance if started from cold and left to idle rather than driving immediately, blue smoke is there until warmed up. I viewed an AA van once at a dealer and the seller started it and left it idling for around 20 minutes while he moved other vehicles to get it out for me to drive. The blue smoke from it was horrendous, it really did fill the street with smoke but as I kept driving, it slowly cleared. I didn't buy that van :D

I've heard of a mobile mechanic by the name of Steve Emms who is supposed to be good and an expert on 2.5 TDI's. Never used him but have heard good things about him.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,547 Posts
Substantially retarded injection timing gives blue (or white) smoke....

The uninitiated will mistake this for burning oil or water.

HH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Many thanks forum members,
Just an update - The VW commercials dealer has not yet sorted the problem out - they apparently need extra test equipment to set the injection timing. What worries me is that they have replaced the main timing belt, got it wrong and run the engine causing damage.
The problem with these situations is that the garage can claim the engine was like it when it came in - the owner hasn't a leg to stand on unless an independent report has been done beforehand to confirm the engine runs perfectly.
I get the distinct impression that the main dealer thinks it is below their dignity to work on an 18 year van.
Regards,
T44ages
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Hi All,
Can anyone clarify a couple of items for me:
Is a 2481cc turbo engine referred to as 2.4 or 2.5 Tdi on this forum?
Is the water pump on the 2481Tdi AJT engine driven by the main timing belt?
Thanks
T44ages
 

·
Full of Cr*p....
Joined
·
8,830 Posts
It's a 2.5 TDi.
Water pump is driven from the main belt, which is why it's normally changed at the same time. (Also the idlers and tensioners).
Problem is, like you found, VW dealers don't have the "old guys" working there anymore who knew how to do this job!

"Extra test equipment" is VCDS, which you can buy yourself for a total of about 150 quid!!!!! (Old laptop - 50 quid, ODBII lead - tenner, and register the "Free VCDS" software download from RossTech. $99 to register it.)
ANYONE with a T4 (that has OBDII port) should have this as a basic tool!

If they've "got it wrong", the valves could have been "kissing" the pistons....which is a major rebuild!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
No software to time this model?

Errr don't think so, the AJT will have the port on the steering column.

You set them initially with a dial gauge off the pump.

That should get the engine running.

Then you have to use the right software to get the timing spot on.

It has to be spot on too. It needs to be the exact number on the software reader or it won't run right.

As some may know I've had a real party over timing belts and timing.

You need someone who knows what they are doing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Hi Guys,
"You need someone who knows what they are doing"
That sums up the problem completely. Since the VW dealer had done the belt twice before it seemed logical to return to the same place.
The more information I get from you all the more worried I am. When I took the van in the service manager said it would need a new water pump as part of replacing the main timing belt. When I collected it (first time) there was no water pump on the parts list, when I asked about this the same service manager said it was not part of replacing the belt.
The saga continues ....
T44ages
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
563 Posts
The service manager doesn't sound very consistent does he ? As others have said the water pump should be replaced along with the belt and tensioner because if the pump fails or tensioner then it usually ends up with bent valves.

It can be a nightmare finding someone reliable who knows the 2.5 TDI as they are tricky to set up properly.

I'm needing some work doing on mine in the near future and I'm not looking forward to it to be honest but we'll see.

You could try that mobile mechanic I mentioned, Steve Emms. I think he is based in Cheltenham but will travel to your address to do the work. As I said I've not used him but he is supposed to be good and uses only VAG parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Anyone in South Wales should get hold of Gerwyn Evans. He re did the timing on mine after an alleged expert, a vast improvement!!

As for not doing the water pump - an absolute no brainer, if you think of the consequences of a pump going home.

Rhys
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Hi Guys,
Problem solved - sorry for delay in posting.
My T4 went in for timing belt replacement and a replacement gearbox. The two meant a lengthy visit to my local VW commercials dealer.
Rebuilt gear box from Germany is fine (so far) and is later EWA which has better 3,4 and 5th gearing.
The issue with injection timing turned out to be petrol in the diesel and since I'm the only one putting fuel in, the buck stops with me.
Many thanks for all the advice given, in spite of a short time on a petrol/diesel mix all seems to be back to normal.
T44ages
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
74 Posts
Well pleased you managed to sort this out especially as it’s not your average problem.
I’m sure you couldn’t have done it without the extensive knowledge from those master forum ‘members’ known and revered as ‘The Initiated’.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top