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Discussion Starter #1
Seems many people have been bandwagon (wagenT:) jumping whilst I've been away at work. :confused:

The right of redress, (whilst very long, in my normal stylee:ILU:) in no particular order, is as follows :

I don't HATE VWs - I've owned plenty, thanks very much. Some were great, some were OK, some were a bit iffy. I could say the same for the string of Vauxhalls that I've owned going back to the early 80s (never had a Droopsnoot Firenza though - my absolute dream car!) :cool:

I don't hate T4s or T5s - but, for me, I find the excessive prices that they command just too much to justify, given they don't actually fare much better in the performance, reliability or practicality stakes according to most independant sources. Now, fair play if you want to pay a premium for your T4/5 just for the 'cool' factor (and of course they're 'cool' - no doubting it - and I know my Fiat isn't - but I can live with that too, as it gets me both to work and back (and many would think my job pretty cool, although it really is NOTHING like Casualty) as well as to my (all too infrequent) surfing trips :D), but I can't, and I won't.

For the record, the T4 won ITS van of the year in 1992 and the T5 won it in 2004. Since the T4's win in 1992 and up to the present, Fiat have won the award 5 times, Mercedes and Ford 3 times each and Nissan and Renault 2 times each.

Make of those results what you will - but VW vans have only won 2 out of 17 years, making them the equal 'worst' van manufacturer with Nissan and Renault - and my surrender monkey lot have come out on top...... go figure I:Rasp:LOL:

I have been around VWs many years and each and every VW 'scene' sadly attracts (along with MANY very nice people:D) a few who like nothing better than conning new owners out of money - whether that's from the sale of overpriced goods or vehicles, or jumping on the 'conversion specialist' bandwagon that follows the van scene around.

Whilst many may think that this is part of the VW 'scene', I think it's a part that needs highlighting to stop new owners from getting ripped off.

Pointing out the true value of things isn't me 'hating' anything - it's giving people who know no different honest advice.

Some secondhand parts sell for more than the NEW dealer prices - what part of that isn't someone being ripped off?:(

Some parts CAN be sourced at reasonable prices from places other than the UK - and can be shipped here at reasonable costs - but there ARE members that have sourced those parts at said reasonable costs and then added a rather huge markup to line their own pockets........again - where does 'business' end and exploitataion of a naieve market begin?:*

How many threads have we seen on here where people have bumped their £8k (for eg) van, only then to find out it's true insurance value is a fraction of that when it's written off? It's a bit late to then tell them about 'agreed value' insurance, isn't it......:(

Telling them their van is only actually worth £1500 to the insurance company ISN'T me hating the T4 - it's me telling people what they NEED to know in ordere to safeguard their vehicle by making suire they take steps to insure it properly.

Many people don't like the fact that I'm here and don't own a T4 anymore.

And?:*

At least I'm here offering advice where I think I can help - and none of that advice costs a penny.

Sadly, there's plenty of examples of people taking the advice they've been given freely on here and using it to set themselves up 'in business' - using other people's knowledge to then pass themselves off as 'specialists'. Sadly, this is another trait of the various VW 'scenes'.

I can think of at least one example of someone who I've personally helped with trimming advice who's then gone on the pass himself off as an interior 'specialist', charging multiple hundreds of pounds for carpetting jobs that I've done FOR FREE for fellow members.

I have personally seen numerous interior jobs that cost hundreds of pounds that I'd feel ashamed of if I'd done it for free.

I can think of other examples where folk have taken other people's (freely given) advice and made a killing out of it.

Again, what part of that is morally 'right'? :* And what good does it ultimately do for everyone in 'the scene'? :*

Onto the question of me winding folk up - of course I do! I do it for a good reason. Rasp:

I'd LOVE to get into that reason, but I won't, because (without wishing to sound condescending, although I'm sure to be accused of such) it would be something that very, very few of you would ever understand, because you simply haven't been around here long enough and have never seen the PMs that have come my way over the years.:(

I may be many things, but I'm not one that likes to enlist lots of help to fight my battles - I much prefer to stand on my own two feet and stand up for myself when I think I have the moral obligation to do so.

Nor do I often sink to the same level of PERSONAL abuse that I often get - it's kind of not me.:*

I can do sarcastic, I can do condescending, I can do downright obtuse - and I could, if I wanted, do downright damning - but I won't.I:

Suffice to say that there's a few on here sitting in greenhouses, foolishly chucking very large rocks all over the gaff - and if the tables were turned, they'd be plastering their thoughts all over this forum........ :(

'The usual suspects' - look, I'm not going to take anyone for a fool here. Suffice to say that certain members and former members (some still posting under newly aquired logons) have taken it upon themselves to try to influence everything that goes on in the T4 'scene' and on this forum in particular. Take a look at 'contentious' threads - look at those that post there - and ask yourself whether you've seen them posting on anything other than 'contentious' issues.

And then formulate your own opinions of who I'm alluding to.T:

And to bring this post to a close (yes - I know - THANK GOD FOR THAT, I hear many of you cryRasp:) - my reason for being as I am is simple - it's because I actually do give a .:cool:

I'm quite a passionate kind of person, with a rather strict moral code as to what I think is acceptable and what I think is right.

I may come across as someone who's just preaching for the sake of it, but I'd rather do that and save one person from gettin ripped off, rather than bow down to the pressure and allow someone to get conned/ill adivised/misinformed

Take it all as you will - but I'm on the end of a PM or email ([email protected]) if you ever need any impartial advice, any trimming help or any (very simple:eek:) technical help.

I might not know all that much, but I'll never charge you for my help, won't pass myself off as an expert in fields I know stuff all about and won't see you as a 'free lunch' just because you're new to the VW scene!T:T:T:T:
 

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Some Valid Comments there BUT :

So-Kal said:
The Usual Suspects
You must count yourself as one Keith as it's virtually Guaranteed that where there is Forum Bickering or arguments you'll usually be involved at the heart of it :eek:

So-Kal said:
Onto the question of me winding folk up - of course I do! I do it for a good reason.
Then you are admitting that you are purposely breaking Forum rules whatever the reasons

Forum Rules said:
Post deliberately provocative posts whose only purpose is to bait others with malicious intent.
I'm not suggesting that you do it with malicious intent but winding people up IS baiting I:

Fair play you do post a lot of Helpful posts on here (For FREE :D)
but your one man crusade to:

Put the VW Scene to rights
Stereotyping of ex forum members & breakaway groups who still do contribute to the Forum
Criticism of & I Quote your Own Words "Those with more money than Sense"

Does become somewhat Tiresome I:
Specially after a year or so

Unfortunately the "Scene" is what it is & is driven by Market Forces
Those that can afford will buy should they choose & that's THEIR CHOICE & those that cant will usually find a way round it.

Chill out Keith it's only a Forum ;)

& Not one for Fiats at That LOL: LOL: LOL:
 

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I agree with a lot of what So-Kal said especially on taking people for a ride etc.
I could name a couple that have tried it with me but won't name them publicly.
Life is like that these days it seems honour does not hold much value any more as a currency.
But I have found that by far the majority on here are here for the right reasons.
Which is a forum of friends with similar interests here to help each other out when needed.A:
I think the issue people may have with So-Kal is his abrupt manner which may simply be down to the written word not being as expressive as speaking, and people may think he is being unpleasant (I did).
After taking more notice of his posts after a bit of a run in we had.:eek: I think he is just one of those "Matter of fact" people who speaks his mind rather than being "fluffy" round the edges and vague.
I don't think we will ever be best mates but I have learned to respect him and what he says even if I don't always agree.
I think a lot of what he says about the "scene" is true too, when you think about it we are paying for looks and image and not necessarily substance.
We are the fashion victims and he is fighting against it (probably because of his financial position) and if we were all sensible with our money we would all be doing the same.
Good luck to you So-Kal T:
 

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I like you Keith T: as an admin i can't rightly wind people up, and you do it just how i would :ILU:
Jim. As pointed out above, it's against the rules :*

As an Admin you can change those rules if you wish to.

But until you do, I don't see it as a particularly good idea to applaud another member for constantly breaking them and admitting to it :*
 

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BMW? You gotta be serious!
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Rules are made to be broken, it's the laws you've got to watch out for, either common or statute, ur buggered either way

I'm still in my pjs u know, playing Playstation :)
 

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Jim. As pointed out above, it's against the rules :*

As an Admin you can change those rules if you wish to.

But until you do, I don't see it as a particularly good idea to applaud another member for constantly breaking them and admitting to it :*
You are right Neal, there are limits to winding people up. And sometimes those limits are overstepped.

Forum Rules said:
Post deliberately provocative posts whose only purpose is to bait others with malicious intent.
The key here is "malicious" and the matter is very subjective, which is why we have a great team of mods to make the decisions.

But as a male of the species it is in our blood to wind up loved ones and friends :)

I personally feel that Keith is a friendly member of the forum (most the time ;) )

I'm still in my pjs u know, playing Playstation :)
I'm in mine too, but at work T:
 

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As for the rest, some good points about cowboy converters etc.

But as always, a few good points mixed in among very general and easily deniable digs at certain people and groups, just to get a response.

Hidden just enough so that if those people respond, they can be told
"I never mentioned you once"
but obvious enough so those people concerned know they are being baited into responding.

Classic.





(for those that don't know, Kieth had a row and with an ex member a few years ago, no idea what it was about but it got pretty heated.
Now that ex member never, and I mean never comes here anymore (not under his own or any other username)
But Kieth has decided that all his friends/acquaintances/etc etc are guilty of something purely by association.
That's why he's always banging on about "other forums" and "usual suspects")
 

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Jim. As pointed out above, it's against the rules :*

As an Admin you can change those rules if you wish to.

But until you do, I don't see it as a particularly good idea to applaud another member for constantly breaking them and admitting to it :*
Neal, whilst the forum police are on the side of the villains, it aint worth your breath (fingertips) dude. You'll only end up in the sin bin - that is unless you dont give a ferk! T:

Rules are made to be broken, it's the laws you've got to watch out for, either common or statute, ur buggered either way

I'm still in my pjs u know, playing Playstation :)

Why are you not at the Helm young man? There must be forum members out there that need your services? Ones that have paid over the odds for their van's, you know the ones - the gullable idiots with more money than sense!!!
 

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Neal, whilst the forum police are on the side of the villains, it aint worth your breath (fingertips) dude. You'll only end up in the sin bin - that is unless you dont give a ferk! T:
The 'forum police' are not on anyone's side we are only here to try and keep the personal digs etc to a minimum, yes that is tough and sometimes we don't get it right. Sometimes we post things that are taken the wrong way too I:

Please fella's this is a golden opportunity for a proper debate to put this all to bed (at least for a while) so keep it to the point and with no personal digs T:

Thanks so much!

Here's to hoping :gl
 

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Neal, whilst the forum police are on the side of the villains, it aint worth your breath (fingertips) dude. You'll only end up in the sin bin - that is unless you dont give a ferk! T:




Why are you not at the Helm young man? There must be forum members out there that need your services? Ones that have paid over the odds for their van's, you know the ones - the gullable idiots with more money than sense!!!

I have a week of leisure planned, so I'm chilling out


As for the different rules for different members, I have to agree, I get away with alot of tosh on here, I ask myself why sometimes, then the voice inside my head says "more chaos, more random, more more more" and the feeling passes and I get on


Btw I had to google "trolling" LOL:
 

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anyone fancy a set of wheels for a grand,that i bought for 100 euro....LOL:

keith mate i have to agree with some of what you say,although i do fall in to the catogree of selling vw stuff..I:..:*

You have always been sound to me..

but as with anything,once it becomes popular,prices rise,it also affects me,as i am now pretty much priced out of buying any descent vans being a sole trader..cheap vans are awful and take way to much to sort out,and a 4k van and then converting on top is out of my price range now..

trouble is the wheels are in motion and the t4 is never going to drop in price,been looking for ages for a reasonable priced tidy van for me brother in law...

i feel i help and give enough advice on here to warrant my very small amount i make from the goods i sale,i do not make a lot of money,enough to pay a wage...just pointing out,not all of us are out to rip people off...

P.S

keep posting,cause the threads do make funny reading..:D
 

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Please fella's this is a golden opportunity for a proper debate to put this all to bed (at least for a while) so keep it to the point and with no personal digs T:
Thanks so much!
Here's to hoping :gl
Maybe Dazboi should go play on some other thread as he never has usually has anything constructive to offer perhaps :bhd
 
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