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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Completely new to this, so might not be too clear! I am hoping someone with knowledge and experience can point me in right direction. I have a 2.5 T5 2007 model, I have read one or two threads and done some research along these lines but now I just have more questions. I have tried calling Pendle Performance today to find out what they do but to no avail as had too busy a day to call again.
Unfortunately after a round trip of forty odd mile at the weekend the glow plug light started flashing near home, when started up again it was ok but I everything all of a sudden seems more urgent! :eek:

History!

Recently the DPF light came on, tried regeneration, nothing happened. Did fault code with a friends reader, looked it up on internet, indicates DPF or pressure within exhaust (may be same?) system. I have a feeling there is a leak on exhaust system very close to engine (would this cause/contribute to light coming on or even inhibit the regeneration?), as when bought it about a year ago if you started engine with fan on fumes are immediately blown into cab (was intending to look at but being as everything is covered underneath, not sure if can jack a van up on my trolley jack etc, so I just start with fan off!). I'm assuming this is the case but didn't think would cause any other problems, am I right?

I have started looking into replacing/removing/remapping but not clear on a few of points:

1. I sent an email to Pendle Performance, whom sent quote back, tried calling today during lunch, answer machine. What do they do as the cost seems pretty high for what I imagine a remap to be, is it not a case of plugging in and change engine management software or is there more to it, do they physically replace the filter (can't see how this can be avoided, one way or another)?

2. I was also looking at a section of exhaust which replaces the filter, the seller says can recommend tuning companies to switch off filter sensors etc. Cost about £150, but do i then have the a another cost similar to that quoted by Pendle Performance (c.£500)?

3. I read somewhere that Pendle suggests to look at no one would know it had been remapped/removed? How do they do this, is the filter left in place, and how can this be?

4. Another thing that concerns me is the MOT, only a certain load of carbon is allowed in the exhaust gases, has anyone had problems with MOT failures once the filter has been removed/replaced/remapped?

What is the best route?!
I would like to remove or remedy the filter problem, removing seems ideal, especially if performance is enhanced and it saves me money in long run (either through economy and/or cost of replacing filter at c.£1200)

I have also seen cheaper (DP) filters online, two types, not sure of my engine type but still at least half the price of a VW one (coincidentally about the same price as a pendle remap though!), are these any good and again do I then still have the remap costs similar to pendle to switch off DPF sensors etc?!!
 

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The pendle DPF removal and remap is what you want.
I have read hundreds of posts and threads and not seen a bad review for pendle.
When they do the DPF delete in the software they also take the DPF off and remove the restrictive material from inside and refit the DPF outer so it looks the same as it did when it left the factory.
Pendle might be along to explain things better.
 

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Hi

i have been doing similar research as I have recently started doing more town driving in my 5.1 and just know eventually i will be looking at my DPF light and the bill that goes with it...

This is what I have discovered... (on here and elsewhere)

1. Plenty say that they have had no MOT pass probs without their DPF delete.
2. VOSA's data sheet states that modifying an engine so that it no longer meets the EURO# standard it was originally designed to meet makes that vehicle illegal to use on the road (and an engine that needed a DPF to pass its EURO emission standard will not pass without its DPF)
3. VOSA's email to me stated :
At present there is no legal requirement to fit a diesel particulate
filter.

However, this issue is becoming very political and may bring about a change
to the test requirements in the future. Before this will happen this will
be laid out before parliament as they are responsible for making change to
the MOT scheme.

I hope this information has assisted you with your enquiry, but if you have
any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind Regards

Rebecca
VOSA Customer Service Centre
Operations Directorate
Tel: 0300 123 9000


4. If the DPF removal was 100% legit and OK then why would it be important or some sort of bonus that the exhaust system is visually unaffected by the procedure... logically if it was really OK to bin these DPFs then you would not need to try to hide your tracks

hope this helps your research, I'm still undecided about DPF removal but suspect I will err on the side of staying 100% legal as that seems to be the right thing to do (as it usually is!)
 

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Hi


4. If the DPF removal was 100% legit and OK then why would it be important or some sort of bonus that the exhaust system is visually unaffected by the procedure... logically if it was really OK to bin these DPFs then you would not need to try to hide your tracks

hope this helps your research, I'm still undecided about DPF removal but suspect I will err on the side of staying 100% legal as that seems to be the right thing to do (as it usually is!)
I suppose 2 reasons - Over zealous MOT testers may get a bit jittery passing a vehicle that has had a DPF obviously removed, and insurance companies may not allow a DPF removal as a legitimate modification, so you cannot insure it, or you hide it and say nothing.

Has anyone notified their insurance of a DPF removal, and what did they say about it?
 

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I suppose 2 reasons - Over zealous MOT testers may get a bit jittery passing a vehicle that has had a DPF obviously removed, and insurance companies may not allow a DPF removal as a legitimate modification, so you cannot insure it, or you hide it and say nothing.

Has anyone notified their insurance of a DPF removal, and what did they say about it?
well exactly....
 

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Pendle Performance Main Agent
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Hi

4. If the DPF removal was 100% legit and OK then why would it be important or some sort of bonus that the exhaust system is visually unaffected by the procedure... logically if it was really OK to bin these DPFs then you would not need to try to hide your tracks

hope this helps your research, I'm still undecided about DPF removal but suspect I will err on the side of staying 100% legal as that seems to be the right thing to do (as it usually is!)
Another way to look at this is, if your DPF is full and needs fixing currently you have a choice, DPF delete or replacement.

If you carry out a DPF delete and they do change the law and this concerns you then you could just get a new DPF and if not, you are ok to carry on with it deleted.

Let's face it, if the law is changed you'll only be back where you started, which is possibly needing a new DPF.

So you may as well enjoy some DPF driving until this, if ever, becomes an issue for parliament. :)
 

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Another way to look at this is, if your DPF is full and needs fixing currently you have a choice, DPF delete or replacement.

If you carry out a DPF delete and they do change the law and this concerns you then you could just get a new DPF and if not, you are ok to carry on with it deleted.

Let's face it, if the law is changed you'll only be back where you started, which is possibly needing a new DPF.

So you may as well enjoy some DPF driving until this, if ever, becomes an issue for parliament. :)
I do get that but that is really about the mot scope not the legality of removing the dpf which is clearly stated as not ok already.Vosa say that taking it off breaks construction and use regs. TRUE there is limited or perhaps no ability to detect this but the likelihood of being caught is not usually the thing that makes something legal or not....

Do insurance companies accept dpf delete as a legitimate mod in writting?
 

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I doubt it due to the fact VOSA say it's illegal.
But how on earth would the insurance find out a DPF is deleted, and if they had the equipment to scan the mapping to find a delete, why on earth would they do this? They are in the buisness of making money, and they would hardly spend a fortune chasing shadows that will earn them nothing.
They would have to be proper b-stards to be looking at such trivial things to attempt to void your policy in the event of a claim.
What proportion of crashed vehicled have a DPF delete, and what would it cost them to investigate them all, and could they legally void your policy to avoid a payout?
Probably find 1 in a thousand have a delete, so they would have to investigate 1000 vehicles to have a chance of maybe not paying out on 1.
 

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I doubt it due to the fact VOSA say it's illegal.
But how on earth would the insurance find out a DPF is deleted, and if they had the equipment to scan the mapping to find a delete, why on earth would they do this? They are in the buisness of making money, and they would hardly spend a fortune chasing shadows that will earn them nothing.
They would have to be proper b-stards to be looking at such trivial things to attempt to void your policy in the event of a claim.
What proportion of crashed vehicled have a DPF delete, and what would it cost them to investigate them all, and could they legally void your policy to avoid a payout?
Probably find 1 in a thousand have a delete, so they would have to investigate 1000 vehicles to have a chance of maybe not paying out on 1.
by that logic then presumably you wouldn't tell the insurance about a remap then... The insurance would only find the remap if they started digging right?... I am guessing if they can tell its been remapped then they can tell its had the dpf system turned off probably at the same time in fact... Seems a bit risky to me.... Remember as you say insurance are there to make money...if there is a get out for them to avoid a big payment be sure they will try to use it and non disclosure is a kind a big one in their world.
 

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A lot of people don't inform of remaps, as they very are hard to spot.
The cost of investigating all vehicles subject to a claim would be massive compared to any savings made by voiding any policies. They would need a copy of every single map for every engine code for every vehicle manufacturer including all the updates and revisions since the 1980's when mapable ECU's were introduced. They could then stand up in court and say 'Here is the data actually on the ECU, and here is the data that should be on the ECU'.
Then comes the tricky thing of proving non disclosure. You could tell the insurance company that you had no idea the vehicle was remapped whatever that means, so how could you disclose something you had no idea about and no way of finding out. It's not like a set of 20" bling wheels thats there for all to see.
I have an Audi A6 2.5 TDI Quattro. It was remapped by the previous owner from 180 to 208 bhp The only way I know, is he told me and I have a copy of the dyno plots. Otherwise I would assume it's standard. (It's a very heavy car, so doesn't feel like 208bhp!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi, it's great that so many people are responding to this thread, some interesting debate! Also puts me in the picture, I'm now in a much better and informed position. I don't really think it's all for me but thanks anyway to all those that are/have contributed.

Out of interest...
Has anyone ever tried removing and 'cleaning' the dpf themselves? When I first started looking around I watched a youtube film from a company that cleans filters, they were promoting their machinery which looked like the filter was put under vacuum in some sort of fume cupboard, not sure if solvents were used..
I'm not really sure how easy solvents are to get hold of, I don't work in a lab environment anymore, and I seem to remember something along the lines of if you aren't a legitimate lab type business you cannot order 5 litre bottle of benzene and such like! I was never involved in purchasing of stock, just order requests, anyone any ideas? Actually thinking about it the organic solvent probably wouldn't remove the carbon as we used to use it to extract things from carbon, this may need more thought!I:
I also remember my Dad used to periodically remove his old CZ motorbike exhaust and get the oxyacetylene torch on it and burn the carbon off. Solvets would certainly help this!!
As I think I may have a leak somewhere anyway I may try removing the dpf and doing as above to it (anyone got some solvent!?), hopefully solving the leak and not setting myself on fire in the process!
 

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Im going to do it myself, as far as i know its just a case of removing all attachments to dpf then removing it from exhaust system. my plan is to cut a letterbox sized hole in top side of it ( side that faces the chassis) smash out the internals with a screwdriver/relevant scraping tool, get it welded back up, refit it and attach pipes and get ecu re- programmed. hope it turns out that simple!
 

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OK slightly different background,
I live in France,

I replaced the turbo 'had to' and fitted full stainless performance exhaust with a DPF delete pipe also, kept the original,
Garage did the thing with computer, just in case,

notified insurance, result " we will cover these alterations for an extra €4,76 per month"

Don't you just love the French A:
 

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Has anyone ever tried removing and 'cleaning' the dpf themselves? When I first started looking around I watched a youtube film from a company that cleans filters, they were promoting their machinery which looked like the filter was put under vacuum in some sort of fume cupboard, not sure if solvents were used..!
Some bus ** companies have DPF cleaners - however, they are expensive to run & the waste is of course classed as "toxic waste" & very expensive to dispose of. However, some of them refit the filters the "other way round" to blow the stuff out again which lengthens the time between "proper" cleaning.

** Real buses, not vans/campers incorrectly called "buses".I:I:I:
 

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OK slightly different background,
I live in France,

I replaced the turbo 'had to' and fitted full stainless performance exhaust with a DPF delete pipe also, kept the original,
Garage did the thing with computer, just in case,

notified insurance, result " we will cover these alterations for an extra €4,76 per month"

Don't you just love the French A:
where did this DPF delete pipe come from? what about the bits that connect into dpf from engine etc? just disconnected?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Just as an update which may or may not be of interest!:
Been to the local garage and plugged it into diagnostic system, 3 faults came up (some I think have developed since the original came up), one problem appears to be a faulty temp sensor, which probably means no regeneration is taking place as engine management thinks it's not getting to temperature. Also another fault indicating that the particulate in the filter is some 95/96g, I forget which, which is at or just over the limit (don't know how this is calculated, some sort of extrapolation), but the percentage for blockage/restriction is indicating well below the acceptable limit of some 45%? The temp sensor seemed to be indicating some 300 odd degrees after the dpf, and some 100 odd before, which didn't seem to make sense, we could only conclude that the temp sensor is faulty and possibly buggering everything else up...?
It is not clear even to a professional mechanic (he'd need to waste time finding out how to test the sensor to be sure), I could possibly end up wasting money on the sensor, probably around £200 fitted, and still have the filter to contend with. So it seems worth the 'risk' of going for the filter removal. No one has reported MOT failures, I don't think, it only removes the larger particle of carbon anyway, no noxious nasty gases, so I don't feel like I'm particularly polluting the environment, plus why do I pay such a huge ammount of road tax which is supposed to be based on carbon if the filter is supposed to be removing it?!
 

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Just as an update which may or may not be of interest!:
Been to the local garage and plugged it into diagnostic system, 3 faults came up (some I think have developed since the original came up), one problem appears to be a faulty temp sensor, which probably means no regeneration is taking place as engine management thinks it's not getting to temperature. Also another fault indicating that the particulate in the filter is some 95/96g, I forget which, which is at or just over the limit (don't know how this is calculated, some sort of extrapolation), but the percentage for blockage/restriction is indicating well below the acceptable limit of some 45%? The temp sensor seemed to be indicating some 300 odd degrees after the dpf, and some 100 odd before, which didn't seem to make sense, we could only conclude that the temp sensor is faulty and possibly buggering everything else up...?
It is not clear even to a professional mechanic (he'd need to waste time finding out how to test the sensor to be sure), I could possibly end up wasting money on the sensor, probably around £200 fitted, and still have the filter to contend with. So it seems worth the 'risk' of going for the filter removal. No one has reported MOT failures, I don't think, it only removes the larger particle of carbon anyway, no noxious nasty gases, so I don't feel like I'm particularly polluting the environment, plus why do I pay such a huge ammount of road tax which is supposed to be based on carbon if the filter is supposed to be removing it?!
Temp Sensor is always thrown as a fault when the dpf is full.... many many many people waste money on sensors etc etc etc and still have the same problem...

You have a blocked / worn out DPF.... Two options you are are as follows

1, Fit a GENUINE (and I mean genuine VW) brand new DPF (these fake copy DPFs are a complete waste of time and money)

2, Do a DPF Delete

Regards
Martin
PendlePerformance
 
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