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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Firstly, if you see a (*) or similar in this post, see the notes at the bottom.

On the HMRC website, they give slightly conflicting info.
There are 2 notes on the subject, on one, it makes out that you must pay duty no matter how much cooking oil (new and used) or biodiesel* you use.
On the other, it says you don’t have to pay until you go over 2500L per year.

So I rang them up. And they confirmed what I wanted to believe…

On the HMRC website, search "Notice 179e", and scroll down to part 2.4, and read through to 3.4 (inclusive), 4.2-4.2.1 and 4.9.1. Its all the parts that I think the average user needs to know.
(by all means read the rest, but a lot of it refers to production (home or business) of Biodiesel and other forms of bio fuel.

From what I understand, you can use up to and including 2500L of Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) or Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO), or make/use up to and including 2500L of Biodiesel(*) without having to tell the government. If using SVO or WVO, for the love of God, make sure you keep a note of: Date of use and the amount in litres! Or else you could be taxed for every mile your vehicle has driven since it was registered to you, based on the manufacturers mpg guidelines.
If you go over the 2500L limit in one year (approx 16497miles in my 2002 2.5tdi 88hp, according to VW mpg figures. More info further down), then it MUST be declared and duty paid on it. IF you are making biodiesel from waste/used cooking oil, the current duty is 20% per litre (#) until 31st March 2012, from 1st April 2012 this rate will be the same as duty on ordinary diesel you get from the pump. (IMO, hardly worth it unless you sell it aswell). Not only this, but the Biodiesel you produce from WVO must meet certain criteria and be proven to be tested at certain time intervals, see section 3.4.2 (§)


To myself and I'd imagine the majority of you nice folks, 16500 miles is more than I cover in 2 years, so happy days!
Please note though, this is based on the manufacturers guideline mpg figures which are generally quite conservative. And using standard diesel oil. Apparently mpg figures are thought to rise slightly when cooking oil is used, but I can neither confirm nor deny the truth of this.

Figures to use as a guideline:

1.9D non-turbo, mpg: 35.7 Mileage from 2500L of diesel: 19632
2.5TDI 102bhp, mpg: 26.7 Mileage from 2500L of diesel: 14682

Remember, these are guideline mpg's, considered to be very conservative (ie, most likely the values will be higher in reality), and allegedly you get better mpg from vegetable oil (yet to be confirmed).

What I'm getting at is, 2500L is plenty!

Notes:
*If you are using biodiesel bought from a registered company, they should’ve paid duty on it already, so you can use as much as you like! But make sure they have paid duty and you keep your receipt!

§ It would seem this only applies until 1st April 2012, when the duty goes up to standard diesel duty anyway.



With regards to filtering WVO
This section willl be added to as i read up and learn more about it. I'll post details once i've got round to doing my first batch...

If you do collect waste oil from an individual/business, you MUST issue them a Waste Transfer Notice (WTN)

The main things to be removed are solid lumps and particles, best filtered to 1 micron on the filtration scale.
Water is often present too, which must be removed. Generally done by warming the WVO post-filtration, over the period of a few days.

It is advised not to use WVO from kebab shops, as they often pour the run-offs from their doner sticks into the waste oil containers, and this is not good to have in the oil that goes into your engine.

A point has been raised that rodents are drawn to the smell and will attempt to get into the tank, either by climbing in, or chewing a hole

Producing Biodiesel

I don't know much about this, and wont be bothering with doing it myself in the near future, however I did email the environmental agency, and they sent me this reply, which could bet useful to those who do or will produce biodiesel for their own use:

Hi Harry,

thank you for your enquiry. The quality protocol doesn't have a minimum limit below which it no longer applies nor are individuals exempt from complying with relevant waste legislation. The cost of complying with the QP is probably prohibitive for individuals producing bio diesel for personal use.

However there are various exemptions that exist from the need to have a permit in relation to bio diesel.

e.g. http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/topics/permitting/116312.aspx This relates to the use of waste derived bio diesel.

e.g. http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/sectors/65616.aspx This relates to the non-commercial manufacture of bio diesel

e.g. http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/topics/permitting/116252.aspx This relates to the small scale production.

The above should satisfy your needs from the waste regulation point of view.

Thanks

Redwynn Sterry
Technical Advisor
Quality Protocols, Operational Technical Services

External - 01208 265 490 / Internal - 7 24 5490 Mobile 07920250977
Environment Agency, Tolgus Depot, Redruth, Cornwall, TR15 3TA

....................

A great informational/factual site on this topic is: www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk


Hope you all find this useful and it clears up some grey areas.
I have read all this to save constant threads asking about it, and everything i have put is correct to the best of my knowledge, but I am only human and misinterpretations happen.

DISCLAIMER

PLEASE READ THE INFORMATION IN NOTE 179E YOURSELF! IF YOU FEEL YOU MAY STILL BE DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL, PLEASE CONTACT THE RELEVANT AUTHORITY TO CONFIRM. I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING I CAN TO MAKE SURE THIS INFORMATION IS CORRECT AT TIME OF WRITING, BUT SOMETIMES THINGS SLIP UNDER THE RADAR. I do not want to be held accountable for misconceptions you may have formed after reading what I have put. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Use in T4’s, some do’s and don’t’s

Firstly, and most importantly, please don’t take what I’m saying as gospel, it’s all stuff I’ve picked up from users comments on here and one or two other sites. If you have done anything I describe below and would like to offer more advice or tips (or if feel I’ve got anything wrong) please let me know via PM and I will add to or edit the post!

From what I’ve read…

All T4’s:

1: Most importantly before using oil, make sure your fuel pump is a Bosch one (I’ve heard all T4’s have Bosch fuel pumps, but please make sure as it’s an expensive repair! Ask other owners of your model who have checked already, I’ll update this when I get confirmation)
Bad fuel pumps for oil are Lucas, Stanadyne and some others. Apparently the seals in the pumps deteriorate over time and it’s game over fuel pump. £££

2: Make sure the oil used is either Rapeseed or Sunflower. Non GM and non animal fats. Apparently best without anti-foaming agents.
Do not use oil derived from Soya.
Apparently incorrect oil can affect the rubber seals used in the fuel lines, and also clog up the injectors and cylinders.

3: The veggie oil will clean the crud out of the fuel tank and lines, so the fuel filter will need changing at approx. 500miles after starting to use it. This can normally be seen when your exhaust starts smoking loads and if left long enough, will struggle to run at all. Filters are cheapish and not too hard to change with no mechanical knowledge. There’s a how to on this forum somewhere. Its probably wise to change it more often than the standard interval, because all future crud will be bought up to the filter from the diesel you put in with the oil. (Not so relevant for 100% svo/wvo users.)

4: If you use a thinning agent for the oil, use either petrol or white spirit, but make sure the white spirit is kerosene free, as kerosene is a BIG no-no with regards to keeping it legal and can land you in a lot of trouble if you’re caught. Along the same lines as using red diesel on public roads.

5: If you plan on leaving your vehicle stood for a while, try and run all the svo/wvo out and replace with diesel, as it can congeal in the engine bay, and that doesnt sound too friendly to me!

6. It's best to ring your insurers first to make sure they have no problem with cooking oil use in your vehicle that is registered with them.

Usage in different variants of Diesel T4's

1.9D and 2.4D:
Fine to use up to 100% pure SVO/WVO in warmer months, and apparently, can even do so in winter, although it will take a few tries to start and the cold start must be out. Personally, I’d recommend adding 20% diesel (or perhaps a tiny bit of petrol/white spirit to help thin out the mix).
Could an owner of one of these models confirm the winter useage please.

1.9TD:
Pretty much same as above, but I’ve put this in it’s on section so I can add any info/advice that 1.9TD owners give me.

2.5TDI 88hp (What I’m driving) and 102hp:
Highest proportion I’ve read about being used so far is 50/50 in the summer months, this is with a bit of 2-stroke oil and drop of petrol added, to help lubricate and thin the oil. The problem with injection engines is that the injectors can get clogged up which wont do you any favours. Also, the increased pressure caused by the thicker oil can put more strain on the engine, hence thinning and lubricating it. Still trying to clear up my facts on this bit to find the perfect blend.
It is recommended to use a much lower percentage of veg oil in the winter unless you have a heated tank or inline fuel heater, as it gets thicker in cold whether and will destroy your injectors and wear the fuel pump out very quickly. Personally, I’d rather pay for Gordon Browns next business trip to the Bahamas than have to fork out to get the pump replaced along with other preipherals that may be damaged in the process.


Heated Fuel Tanks, Dual Tanks, Fuel Heaters and Heated Fuel Filters.

I’ve not looked much into this yet, but will do. If you’re unsure why they’re needed, pour some veg oil into a glass/beaker and leave it in the fridge over night. You’ll soon see why people avoid using it straight in winter months.

Heated fuel tanks:
Sound pretty straight forward, I’d imagine it’s a straight swap over with some wires run to the tank to power the heaters. This warms the oil up before it gets into the engine bay, thus making it thinner and less likely to clog up any components. This should also eleviate all extra strain on the fuel pump.
Dual tanks:
Work in that you start your engine on the tank of diesel, then when it’s up to 90degrees, you flick a switch and the veg oil is used instead. When you are getting near your destination, you flick the switch back and diesel is used which cleans out the lines, ready for the next cold diesel start.
Inline Fuel Heaters:
Are copper pipes mounted inline, after the fuel tank but before the fuel filter., with a heating element. The will eleviate some pressure from the fuel pump, although the pump still needs to pull it from the tank to the heater, so still not ideal.
Heated Fuel Filters:
I’ve read that some car fuel filters (example I read about was a clio one, loads in scrap yards these days), are heated. They may not fit in the original fuel filter slot, but there’s enough space above it that it can be made to work without too much fiddling!


Right, that’s pretty much all I can remember off the top of my head.

PLEASE LET ME KNOW BY PRIVATE MESSAGE ASAP IF YOU KNOW OF ANY OF THIS TO BE INCORRECT AND I WILL AMMEND

DISCLAIMER

THIS IS ALL STUFF I’VE LEARNT FROM SEARCHING THE NET, READING THREADS ON THIS FORUM AND EMAILING VARIOUS AUTHORITIES. A WHOLE WORLD OF INFO OUT THERE, GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND!! PLEASE CONFIRM DETAILS YOURSELF AS THE ADVICE ABOVE IS FROM PEOPLES PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AND RESEARCH, AND BY NO MEANS STATED AS ABSOLUTE FACT.

PLEASE DON’T PM ME WITH REGARDS TO QUESTIONS ON VEG OIL USE. WHILST I AM HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE, MY INBOX CAN ONLY HANDLE SO MUCH!

FINALLY, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, EVERYTHING WRITTEN BY ME ON THIS SUBJECT IS ADVICE, AND ALTHOUGH I WILL DO ALL I CAN TO MAKE SURE IT IS CORRECT AND VALID (AT TIME OF PUBLISHING), IT DOESN’T MEAN YOU’RE ALLOWED TO HATE ME IF FOR SOME REASON YOUR OIL/DIESEL RATIOS OR THE OIL IN GENERAL DOESN’T GET ALONG WITH YOUR VEHICLE.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
:tu Chris likes this.
Wahey! Cheers mate! Guess you saw my other post about the "like" button, haha.

Harry finds that comment funny LOL:

Top post mate. all the info in one place
Thanks for your input and the trials you did!

Anything else you'd add to the 2.5tdi do's n dont's?
 

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Wahey! Cheers mate! Guess you saw my other post about the "like" button, haha.

Harry finds that comment funny LOL:



Thanks for your input and the trials you did!

Anything else you'd add to the 2.5tdi do's n dont's?
Just that tesco garages (petrolstation with shop) frown on you when you empty them of veg oil and fill up in the car park I:


An a regular fuel.filter change is nessasery to stop trubles starting.

And if the vans gona be stood for any time try to empty the veg out of the sustem first as it can sort of congeal after a period. not sure if it would damage owt but woildant like it in my lines
 

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LIKE!

From my experience the 3 most important things are......................


a) if you put the van in the garage - do 'em favour and fill up with diesel - the smoke from WVO in an enclosed workshop can overcome the most hardened VW mechanic, eh The Steves! LOL:H: ;)


b) Keep your filtration system locked down - Rattus norvegicus love the oil and sadly will do anything to get at it!
I had to re-filter a a barrel full recently after not one but 5 Siberian Hamsters mysteriously drowned after I left my stash uncovered! Just don't tell Mrs Hendrix - she knows about one...............might have not mentioned his 4 mates!

c) A cheeky feeling of sticking it to the Man - saving money while benefiting the environment and appreciating it when you're passed in the street by that unmistakable odour of barbecue van as a fellow veg driver passes by :D
 

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A health warning


your weight.may increase as the smell of bbq ribs makes ou crave them.



On the upside you wont be wasting preciouse oil on chips any more. unless you get your waist from the chippy. in wotch case your nakerd
 

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I'm ok then, only done 15000 in the 3 years I've had the van A:
 

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The only true source of Veg/Bio related material within the UK and they have a WIKI to help the noobs.

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

Top Tips not yet mentioned.
***** never take anyones word for it, always research as mistakes or misintpretations could have potentially very expensive concequences.
***** Also make sure you notify your insurance company to stay on the safe side.
***** If you collect waste oil, you are leagally required to issue a WTN.
***** There are other restrictions/regulation from the Environmental agency which you must abide by.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
The only true source of Veg/Bio related material within the UK and they have a WIKI to help the noobs.

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

Top Tips not yet mentioned.
***** never take anyones word for it, always research as mistakes or misintpretations could have potentially very expensive concequences.
***** Also make sure you notify your insurance company to stay on the safe side.
***** If you collect waste oil, you are leagally required to issue a WTN.
***** There are other restrictions/regulation from the Environmental agency which you must abide by.
Thank you, I forgot to put in the second post about checking info for yourself, but it was in the first post.

I've add the first 3 point for now, and am just reading the environmental agency quality protocol... Great stuff for a saturday morning... not.
But I'd rather get the facts right, thanks for letting me know T:

EDIT : Sod reading all that, I'm going to email the environmental agency and ask them for their advice with regards to production of biodiesel for personal use
EDIT 2: Its not even bloody Saturday, forgot i was given a mid-week day off! LOL:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The only true source of Veg/Bio related material within the UK and they have a WIKI to help the noobs.

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

Top Tips not yet mentioned.
***** never take anyones word for it, always research as mistakes or misintpretations could have potentially very expensive concequences.
***** Also make sure you notify your insurance company to stay on the safe side.
***** If you collect waste oil, you are leagally required to issue a WTN.
***** There are other restrictions/regulation from the Environmental agency which you must abide by.
I've updated the original post with an email reply from a lady at the waste Protocols office at the Environmental Agency, thanks again for the heads up T:
 

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Mods, Admin, and AN Other,

Surely a sticky on the ins and outs of using veggie oil would be worthwhile. It seems to be a popular subject that is discussed between members.

Especially with another revenue hike expected in days:(

Just why am I looking to coming home so much then?:*
 

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A WCL is only needed if you are to make profit out of the WVO, if it's for your own use then no license is required however you may find that some of the people you collect from will ask for it and won't let you take their oil without one.
 

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Good thread

There is a complete section in the Fuel

i've just topped up for the Holiday

£18.75 20 litres KTC Rapeseed @ Makro

 

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Discussion Starter #19
Top post mate, the mumbo jumbo seems to make no sense. Now you've simplified it, I've re-read and yes it does actually make sense!!!

One thing though, apparently it says on the website

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ntent&id=HMCE_CL_000205&propertyType=document

that I have to inform HMRC that I wish to use Veg Oil as a Make Entry - is that right?
No, IIRC you only need to make entry if you plan on selling the purified oil. If it's for personal use only then you need only note down the relevant details. I think it's: Date added, how much added, and current mileage.
Double check that though as it's been a little while since I looked it up. I've got a little notebook in the glove box with those details.

To be honest though, I've recently been using straight diesel and about 50ml 2-stroke oil to 25L of diesel. The fuel economy has risen massively.

I'll soon have a good source of free waste veg oil on the site i'm working on in london for the next few months, so i might be having a go at making biodiesel. If I do, I'll document the diy method I use and add it in this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
A WCL is only needed if you are to make profit out of the WVO, if it's for your own use then no license is required however you may find that some of the people you collect from will ask for it and won't let you take their oil without one.
That just it, if they're a registered business then they should always keep note of how the used oil is disposed of, ptherwise the environments agency will come down like a tonne of bricks on them as they could easily be pooring it into the nearest drain/river.

As the person collecting the oil, it is highly advisable to keep notes yourself on how much you collect, where from, and how you've used it. Otherwise the EA might come to you after the local takeaway where you got it from and start demanding proof of where the oil has gone and how it was used. See the letter I put at the end of the first post, if they think you're producing biodiesel, they may get a bit miffed.... To say the least!
 
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