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Discussion Starter #1
Question for increasing performance past 130bhp!

I’m new to the forum and have spent all day reading the threads, but I’m still at a regarding GOLF TURBOS, so sorry if this has already been covered many times before!

My 2005 T5 84bhp SWB panel van was recently remapped to 130bhp; I’m very pleased with the increased performance (especially as the remap only cost £150 – German auto electrical specialist in South Wales!). The van feels completely different and I can honestly say it’s the best £150 I have ever spent

Regardless of the recent remap, I still want more BHP – preferably 150BHP! I’ve spent a few days browsing the forum but have been able to confirm the local advice that I’ve been given. Basically I’ve been told that if I fit a MK4 or MK5 Golf 130bhp turbo to my T5 (some tubes/breather pipes should be also be uprated) it will take it up to 150bhp. This is apparently considered sensible upgrade as the GOLF Turbo is able to deliver the optimum air induction etc needed for 1.9 T5 engines. Once the Golf Turbo is fitted not further ECU remapping will be needed once the turbo/pipes are upgraded.

Does anybody have any opinions/experience of upgrading Turbo’s to get the desired performance increases I’m looking for?

I’ve already spoken to Celtic Tuning who are sending me some information on the remapping / e-motion dongles they provide, but I really want understand more about upgrading the Turbo on my T5.

Cheers,
RAGE.
 

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Well had a look at their website (celtic) and interesting gains for the 2.5, 130 bhp to 203 bhp and the torque ups from 251 Ib/ft to 341 Ib/Ft but thought this little bit that i have copied was very interesting and something i didnt know!!

This engine is exactly half of that used in the Touareg 5.0 V10 so it’s evident of the tolerances available in this engine. For those who want we can remove the 120mph speed limiter to make the most of the power increase.

Didnt even occur to me that they would do 120mph anyway??:eek::eek:
 

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also very interested in any comments same boat different water mapped it and got bored fancy breaking the 150 hp if pos
 

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Well had a look at their website (celtic) and interesting gains for the 2.5, 130 bhp to 203 bhp and the torque ups from 251 Ib/ft to 341 Ib/Ft but thought this little bit that i have copied was very interesting and something i didnt know!!

This engine is exactly half of that used in the Touareg 5.0 V10 so it’s evident of the tolerances available in this engine. For those who want we can remove the 120mph speed limiter to make the most of the power increase.

Didnt even occur to me that they would do 120mph anyway??:eek::eek:
I have celtics 203bhpremap on my T5 and I can tell you it`s an impressive difference!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Firstly thanks for the feedback on this thread so far - much appreciated - so glad I joined this forum :)

I do not doubt Celtic Tunings claims - especially as they have a rolling road to prove -performance figures and give you DYNO print-outs to prove their work! Their e-motion device looks amazing, but that's another story, and something I may look into if I can't work out if an uprated turbo will give me the desired 150bhp!T:

BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION:

Yesterday I called by to see the guy who remapped my T5 to 130bhp to confirm what he said would BE THE BEST WAY to take it to 150bhp. I don't want achieve 150bhp through remapping alone as this puts too much stress on the engine and ultimately shortens the engine life.:eek:

Basically he said I need to obtain an up-rated turbo - ideally a 130bhp turbo off a MK4 Golf. By fitting a MK4 Golf Turbo to my T5 I will instantly get 150bhp (as I already have a remap to 130bhp). He said there would be no need for further ECU remapping etc. He also recommended replacing some of the hoses to the turbo with new standard ones to help with aspiration or something!

He can't be feeding me a line because he doesn't stand to gain anything from me! He's an auto-electrical specialist and not interested in doing any mechanical work (i.e. fitting an up-rated turbo).

Does anybody have any opinions/experience of upgrading 1.9 T5 Turbos with 130bhp MK4/5 Golf Turbo's?

Cheers,
RAGE.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I think I’ve found the answer to my original question regarding upgrading my 1.9 T5 Turbo with one off a MK4/5 1.9 Golf TDI! Go easy on me if I’ve got this completely wrong as I am a Newbie, and just trying to find my feet!

So I recently had my 05 T5 85bhp van remapped to 130bhp. The guy who done the remap said that upgrading the Turbo to something close to a MK4/5 TDI 130bhp Turbo should take my T5 up to 150bhp without the need for further remaps etc. This advice is based on the fact that the T5 1.9 engine is almost identical to that of the MK4/Mk5 Golf 1.9 TDI engines - the main difference between the Golf and T5 engines are the Turbo Chargers.

The table below shows the details of the various VW Transporter Turbo Chargers:



My current Turbo is outlined by the red box table above.

So from my very limited mechanical knowledge I understand that I need to get my hands on an uprated Turbo with the following specifications KKK BV39 (BV39a is also compatible)!

I know this post is getting very long winded…But I’d really appreciate some feedback from a forum member who’s in the know for upgrading 1.9 T5 Turbos as described above.

After a quick search on eBay I found what looks like a suitable upgrade; it’s more than I want to pay (£399), but I’m in no rush (gotta buy a new house first) so reckon I can pick one up for about £250 as that seems to be the average price of refurbished Turbos of this calibre.

Ebay Link KKK BV39A - 0022 TURBO CHARGER VW AUDI SKODA 1,9 TDI (IT WILL FIT THE FOLLOWING CARS / MODELS: VW T5 Transporter TDi 85 / 105 / 132BHP / Golf V / Golf V Plus)

Some Background on Turbos & Benefits:
Apparently upgrading the Turbo to one off a MK4/5 Golf is better for the health of the engine (reliability) than having a remap take it to 150bhp; an uprated Turbo forces more air into the engine which in turn enables the ability to ignite the fuel more efficiently; thus providing increased power delivery throughout a wider rev range and enables fuel to burn more efficiently (More MPG)! Simply put there are two key ingredients needed to power an engine; Fuel (in our case Diesel), and Air (Oxygen) You can’t ignite fuel without air, so fuel injectors don’t need to deliver as much fuel if there is ample air to burn all the fuel that has been injected in the first place. With more air available in the engine the need to inject more fuel to get the same desired power (due to lack of air) is suppressed. Fuel burns more efficiently when more Air is available, increased power is achieved by injecting more fuel (flooring it) into the engine where it will burn more efficiently due to an uprated turbo delivering the more air! I appreciate that my description of Turbos and their benefits will raise a few eyebrows especially from various Tuning, Remapping, and Chipping etc, so I’ll leave these guys argue the point.

This is how VW designed the Golf's – (and many others) which are very reliable and 150bhp MKV TDI’s are able to return over 57mpg.

Please remember, I’m simply looking understand if the best option for me to take my van from 130bhp to 150bhp is to upgrade the Turbo? I’ve already had my van remapped from 85bhp to 130bhp and when driven sensibly I can get an extra 80 miles to a tank since the remap. If upgrading the Turbo isn’t the way to go then I’ll probably pay Celtic Tuning a visit for a full 160bhp remap (proven by their rolling road)

Right, this post is far too long winded - time to call it a night! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP…
 

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Good thread mate I'm a newbie to this forum too and it's awesome. I think (but I'm no expert) u would be off putting a bigger turbo, intercooler and injectors. Because mapping from 85hp to 160hp seem a lot. But good luck mate hope someone with more know how can help
 

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If it was me, I'd get GT TDI (150HP) injectors and either a 150hp turbo or a better option could be a Hybrid Turbo. Atleast it'll be a direct fit (Not sure the golf is).

Add a intercooler and you'll see 200hp easily enough. Theres a chap with a Skoda 100pd thats now at 280hp. Standard internals but ported head and massive turbo! T:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Good thread mate I'm a newbie to this forum too and it's awesome. I think (but I'm no expert) u would be off putting a bigger turbo, intercooler and injectors. Because mapping from 85hp to 160hp seem a lot. But good luck mate hope someone with more know how can help
T5Mike, Nice to have some feedback:ILU: On Sat I'm taking my van to a Garage in S.Wales which I can't rate highly enough - Previously they have replaced the engine on my focus with a refurbished one, replaced the clutch, changed entire cooling system on my megan and generally looked after all my Motors over the years A: they even sorted my T5 Dual Man Flywheel Issue when it was last serviced :D So when I see them on Sat, they will give the Van a full inspection (they will also check details on the actual turbo against the table on this thread to make sure all details are accurate) and advise if an upgrade is advisable/possible :eek: and what power gains I can expect. It's reassuring to know that they have a rolling road to prove their work (I don't think there's an extra charge for using this is you have them do some tuning work on your vehicle):*

To get the best performance and ensure longevity of the engine they will also tell me if anything else should be changed (intercooler, injectors, etc). As per your comments T5Mike T: Apparently loads of Turbos can fit a massive range of vehicles (they just bolt on); but VW Golf Turbos are the most recommended because the engines are almost identical! Obviously there's some tweaking after the turbo replacement, but this only takes minutes I:

So on Sat I'm going there for a free consultation and will take things from there :)

About The Garage
They can source all required parts - or I an supply my own; they get their parts from trade scrap yards (which come with some warranty) so cheaper than fleabay.

When the big-end went on my 2002 Focus at 100k, they charged £500 to replace the entire engine with a 35k refurbished one; the donor engine didn't come with any service history (probably lost as it was taken out of the donor car), but the Garage provide a 3 month warranty on all parts and labour (including this engine)! I noticed intermittent accellaration problems after a couple of weeks once they changed the engine :( I took it back and it turned out that they cracked the fuel management circuit board when they dropped the replacement engine into the car; they replaced the cracked circuit board free of charge (a loss to them) and the engine was good for another 20k until I sold the car. Oh and they only charged £250 to replace the Clutch at a later date - so all in all good value.

I'm optimistic about having an engine/turbo expert give the T5 a once over on Sat - especially as it will cost me nothing :tu

As soon as I have an update from the professionals I'll give you an update.

Cheers
RAGE
 

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What garage u using? Iv only had my t5 for 2 weeks I bought it in Cardiff, I've got 174 it still standard and it's a animal I was thinking of getting it remapped but it spins enough now when I pull off a bit sharpish.I had a t4 Kombi before that and used a place in bridgend if I had any problems it's always good to have a garage recomended
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If it was me, I'd get GT TDI (150HP) injectors and either a 150hp turbo or a better option could be a Hybrid Turbo. Atleast it'll be a direct fit (Not sure the golf is).

Add a intercooler and you'll see 200hp easily enough. Theres a chap with a Skoda 100pd thats now at 280hp. Standard internals but ported head and massive turbo! T:
Andy Variant, first of all thank you for your feedback :)

Your advice sounds awesome, but this is my everyday vehicle so 200hp would probably be too thirsty on fuel (your recommendation sounds more suitable for a weekend or show van - not commuting!). Any idea what MPG would be for your suggested upgrade? Do you have any experience of that type of upgrade? :confused: I'm so new to this that my knowledge is very limited on modifying :confused: Up until I joined this forum I always knew about Cars, but my experience was limited to just having run of the mill garages Service, MOT, and Repair them for me. Now I've completely got the modifying bug :rolleyes:

I'll ask the guys at the garage on Sat all about Injectors, Intercoolers, Bigger More Powerful Turbos etc and decide where to go from there. I think a 130bhp Golf MK4/5 Turbo was originally recommended to me because it would take me to 150bhp without any need for extra remapping (so no extra emapping cost). But remapping in South Wales is so cheap I wouldn't let that influence my decision regarding a bigger Turbo for more power :D I think 180bhp would be the absolute max I would want to take it to - but I would need to know a lot more about MPG before going that far!

Before I visit the garage on Sat I'll make a list of the discussed performance options (Various Turbos, Injectors, Intercoolers, and additional remaps etc) for increasing the T5's power. Obviously I've still got but that's the fun part; when it's finished it will be the ultimate T5 at least for md :cool: lots of research R: to do because I want my van to be eventually be the ultimate T5. It will take years to get it how I want -

Before choosing any additional (if any) upgrades I'll need to weigh up Performance, Economy(MPG), Increased Insurance Cost for Mods, and ultimately the price of the parts and labour to do the total upgrade. Will keep you posted as I find out moreT:
 

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Impressive motivation, all the best to you.

BUT, it does sound a little like you shoulda' bought a 2.5 motor with the extra power as stock?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What garage u using? Iv only had my t5 for 2 weeks I bought it in Cardiff, I've got 174 it still standard and it's a animal I was thinking of getting it remapped but it spins enough now when I pull off a bit sharpish.I had a t4 Kombi before that and used a place in bridgend if I had any problems it's always good to have a garage recomended
I'll Send You A Private Message
I'm new to the forum also (joined 11/01/11); I'm not sure what the etiquette is for promoting garages/services who are not trade members on public forums - as I understand Trade members pay a premium to be featured on the site!

It might not go down too well with other members if I start promoting garages which haven’t subscribed to the forum, so happy to discuss privately! As I'm new here I'm really keen to make friends and share knowledge about Transports etc, going against the etiquette (if there is one) might have the opposite affect and end up in me being alienated by some traders (and there are some amazing traders on here!). You know where I coming from, why should Traders/Tuners/Garages who haven’t subscribed get advertisements from replies to posts from me against those Traders who have paid a subscription fee! I might be wrong – just being very careful being new to the forum and everything.

RAGE

:bhd
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Bigger turbo could be more laggy??
It could be, and it's something that's on my mind....:confused:

I think this all depends on the actual turbo. We would need to understand the lag difference between 130, 140, 170, and 190bhp Golf Turbos. Also it's not all about the size of the turbo! A turbo basically acts as a vacuum and forces outer air into the engine when the turbo spins up. The many different Turbo designs around these days would need to be given some serious thought! Some smaller Turbos are just more efficient at forcing the air through to the engine because of the varying dynamics of the large intake combined with the smaller inlet pipe (same principle as a karcher pressure washer – same intake of mass, but greater output of force!)

Originally Escort RS Turbos had massive Turbos because they needed huge pipes / turbines to be able to force the air into the engine, however later Escort RS Turbos had much smaller Turbos but were considerably more powerful, this is because the new Turbos were designed with a more efficient (faster with less bearing friction) Turbine to spin the air up, they also had a larger intake pipe to accept (vacuum) as much outside air as possible and had a smaller engine inlet pipes thus (forcing more) increasing air pressure into to the actual engine; these adjustments enabled smaller Turbos to more efficient with significantly less lag. Now remember this description goes back 15 years or so (I’m quoting Escort RS Turbos!) so now there has to be loads more to consider for enhancements in Turbos these days :(

Maybe this wasn't the best subject for me to choose as my first thread as a new member - don't get me wrong it's interesting, but there's just so many variables to consider. Maybe I need to decide exactly what I want the end result to be for the power output, mpg, van usage etc before spending much more time on this. Otherwise I could spend a bomb and end up with something that's not what I really set out to achieve.

I’m really hopeful the Turbo specialist I’m seeing on Say will tell me everything I need to know.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Impressive motivation, all the best to you.

BUT, it does sound a little like you shoulda' bought a 2.5 motor with the extra power as stock?
Maybe, but I think there's a big weight difference (I have no evidence of this - just my assumption) - so if I hit 180bhp with my current 1.9 it should perform equally if not better than a stock 2.5! To be honest I didn't have a clue about T5's when I bought mine back in August, I just wanted a cool looking van to I transport my MX and Mountain bikes.

If I could go back in time to re-evaluate re-chose a van - I think I'd be swaying towards a 4Motion or something. My mates got a 172bhp 2.5 (6 speed) - fair play it's lush A, and a lot quicker than mine even though it's been remapped to 130!:eek:
 

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Maybe, but I think there's a big weight difference (I have no evidence of this - just my assumption) - so if I hit 180bhp with my current 1.9 it should perform equally if not better than a stock 2.5! To be honest I didn't have a clue about T5's when I bought mine back in August, I just wanted a cool looking van to I transport my MX and Mountain bikes.

If I could go back in time to re-evaluate re-chose a van - I think I'd be swaying towards a 4Motion or something. My mates got a 172bhp 2.5 (6 speed) - fair play it's lush A, and a lot quicker than mine even though it's been remapped to 130!:eek:
Fair enough. A:

I up-graded from a 1.9 104 to a 2.5 174 and oh my god it was worth it. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The End of My Turbo Upgrade / Powe Increase Journey…..

Well chaps, I’ve spoken to a lot of experts, forum members, and done a lot of research etc regarding the upgrading of the turbo on the 2005 T5 85bhp (remapped) to 130bhp. The original advice I was given was to bolt a suitable MK4/5 golf engine straight on and you will get an instant 150bhp with only slight modifications needed (hoses upgraded etc).

Since I received this advice I have spoken to a person who upgrades Turbos & Engines etc in the S.Wales area on a regular basis; he basically said he was happy to take my cash and do the work, but said that I was just asking for trouble. These are engines are not as close to the Golf engines as I have been advised although their Turbos will bolt straight on – the Golf and T5 engines do have some significant differences (ranging from cranks, gear boxes etc – the list goes on).

He also said that I could expect to see piston’s blowing through the engine, fly wheels/clutches needing changing every 10k-20k and the life of gear boxes being halved. So in summary unless you’re looking to build a Show Car he doesn’t think I should bother I (this is my everyday car). Similar wear and tear has been found through excessive re-mapping alone - although the power increase the remapping alone is not as smooth as a turbo upgrade & remap it will still cause result in excess stress on the engine. He even said that my gearbox will be over-stressed (only slightly) due to it being on 20” rims, which like the equivalent of it being geared up. This isn’t so much of a stressor that I’ll start flying through gearboxes, but it will decrease how many miles the gearbox box lasts for!

So based on expert advice from two garages (one specialist) I’ve decided that upgrading the turbo or remapping to 150bhp simply isn’t worth it as 130bhp feels plenty enough for me right now. If I was to take it a step further the best option for be to go for the T5 2.5 174bhp model (my mates got one and it goes like a rocket).

However, If anyone is interested in Tuning their T5 1.9 to 200bhp then you may find the following email from Scott at Owen Development’s very helpful!

The unit I can recommend is part number: 721021-5006s which is £575.00+vat. The unit will be capable of 200BHP and is the best unit we can supply for you. It will bolt on directly the exhaust side (down pipe and head) the oil fittings will be the same as you have already; there are no water fittings to worry about either. Only concern is the compressor side which I don't think will be too much work. To get the most from this unit it would be advised look into remapping once the unit has been fitted.

RAGE :bhd
 

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I'll Send You A Private Message
I'm new to the forum also (joined 11/01/11); I'm not sure what the etiquette is for promoting garages/services who are not trade members on public forums - as I understand Trade members pay a premium to be featured on the site!

It might not go down too well with other members if I start promoting garages which haven’t subscribed to the forum, so happy to discuss privately! As I'm new here I'm really keen to make friends and share knowledge about Transports etc, going against the etiquette (if there is one) might have the opposite affect and end up in me being alienated by some traders (and there are some amazing traders on here!). You know where I coming from, why should Traders/Tuners/Garages who haven’t subscribed get advertisements from replies to posts from me against those Traders who have paid a subscription fee! I might be wrong – just being very careful being new to the forum and everything.

RAGE

:bhd
Could you PM me the garage as well please.
I'm around the corner in Radyr, would be good to know a local expert..

Cheers
giles
 

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Hi there Rage.
I'm new to this site as well. I have a T5 1.9 AXC engine, yes very gutless and was thinking about doing the same thing. I don't want to put to much stress on the engine so was thinking of just getting it map to 130. All these 1.9 are capable of 130. :*
 
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