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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello,

Just wanted to post up after a conversation with a client of ours.

He took a policy out with us based on the vehicle being completed and registered as a camper with the DVLA.

He has just had the vehicle turned down by the DVLA for not looking like a camper on the outside and mentioned he had a 30 minute frustrating conversation with them.

Lucky his insurance has not been effected and we can keep him insured as a modified day van, with all the modifications covered under the policy and no cost to add additional modifications.

For anyone struggling with the DVLA then we can still arrange great cover for dayvans and it does not have to be registered with the DVLA.

Apparently according to the DVLA after speaking to the client they will be updating the DVLA website shortly with the additional information reference vans to campers.

Hope this helps and thought it was worth a mention.

All the best

Dan
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Discussion Starter #2
IMPORTANT UPDATE..

So I thought it would help if I called the DVLA and asked them what the issues were.

Here is what I found out.

It sounds like unfortunately they will be turning down most converted campers if they do not look like a camper on the outside.

I asked him a direct question that they list the requirements on the interior so why not have a list on the outside to.. i.e stickers, bike rack, windows.. etc.. anything to establish its a camper.

He had no answer to that and said there is no set criteria for the outside..

My professional view is they now don't want vans registered to campers i.e self builds and turning them down.

I did catch something interesting where he mentioned something about the making it easier for the police to identify vehicles. Hence not looking like a camper on the outside.

I think that could be part of the issue.

Again hope this helps.

Dan
 

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IMPORTANT UPDATE..

So I thought it would help if I called the DVLA and asked them what the issues were.

Here is what I found out.

It sounds like unfortunately they will be turning down most converted campers if they do not look like a camper on the outside.

I asked him a direct question that they list the requirements on the interior so why not have a list on the outside to.. i.e stickers, bike rack, windows.. etc.. anything to establish its a camper.

He had no answer to that and said there is no set criteria for the outside..

My professional view is they now don't want vans registered to campers i.e self builds and turning them down.

I did catch something interesting where he mentioned something about the making it easier for the police to identify vehicles. Hence not looking like a camper on the outside.

I think that could be part of the issue.

Again hope this helps.

Dan
The comment abouth the police able to identify vehicles is the stock answer that DVLA give to everyone when they query it. That is clearly an excuse as they can look up the vehicle registration if they wanted to (and I bet do anyway)

I think your view about simply not wanting re-registrations is spot on. Exactly why who knows, but I doubt if 1 in a 100 requests will now go through without the threat of getting Members of Parliament or the like involved.
It is a farce IMO that they can say "it doesn't look like a motor home" but not be able to provide just what is necessary to look like a Motorhome, especially when factory 'Motor Caravans' from VW don't look from the outside any more like a Motorhome (and maybe actually less) than most of the conversions people do.

Question Dan ... For a Campervan Insurance, do you (or your underwriters) need the vehicle to actually be recorded as a Motor Caravan on the V5C, or is it sufficient for the DVLA to acknowlege the vehicle meets the stated criteria of a Motor Caravan?
Ref the second bit, the DVLA respond back declining to reclassify now, but also do now have a stock statement that includes "Although you have converted the interior of the vehicle with living facilities associated with a motor caravan, externally the vehicle remains as it was originally constructed by the manufacturer.
As the vehicle cannot be identified externally as a motor caravan, for the purposes of our records, we cannot change the body type description."
So they are actually acknowledging that all the key conversion work internally matches the requirement.
And externally the photos of the van will show the the vehicle is as much a Campervan as a VW California for example, so logically all neccessary work in terms of conversion work is good, the same as it was in the past when Insurers would have no issues covering the vehicle, so should that not still be the case?

The next conversion I do I doubt very very much if the DVLA will agree to reclassify it with their current stance, but at the same time I also have no doubt it will be MOTed as a Motor Caravan (just like my current van was BEFORE it got officially reclassified).
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The comment abouth the police able to identify vehicles is the stock answer that DVLA give to everyone when they query it. That is clearly an excuse as they can look up the vehicle registration if they wanted to (and I bet do anyway)

I think your view about simply not wanting re-registrations is spot on. Exactly why who knows, but I doubt if 1 in a 100 requests will now go through without the threat of getting Members of Parliament or the like involved.
It is a farce IMO that they can say "it doesn't look like a motor home" but not be able to provide just what is necessary to look like a Motorhome, especially when factory 'Motor Caravans' from VW don't look from the outside any more like a Motorhome (and maybe actually less) than most of the conversions people do.

Question Dan ... For a Campervan Insurance, do you (or your underwriters) need the vehicle to actually be recorded as a Motor Caravan on the V5C, or is it sufficient for the DVLA to acknowlege the vehicle meets the stated criteria of a Motor Caravan?
Ref the second bit, the DVLA respond back declining to reclassify now, but also do now have a stock statement that includes "Although you have converted the interior of the vehicle with living facilities associated with a motor caravan, externally the vehicle remains as it was originally constructed by the manufacturer.
As the vehicle cannot be identified externally as a motor caravan, for the purposes of our records, we cannot change the body type description."
So they are actually acknowledging that all the key conversion work internally matches the requirement.
And externally the photos of the van will show the the vehicle is as much a Campervan as a VW California for example, so logically all neccessary work in terms of conversion work is good, the same as it was in the past when Insurers would have no issues covering the vehicle, so should that not still be the case?

The next conversion I do I doubt very very much if the DVLA will agree to reclassify it with their current stance, but at the same time I also have no doubt it will be MOTed as a Motor Caravan (just like my current van was BEFORE it got officially reclassified).

Hello Hoovie,

We offer all types of cover. part conversions, full campers.

Already in talks with our insurers on the issue as want to make sure we get the right policy and premium for you and also if a claim every happens the vehicle is registered with them correctly and the claim will be sorted without issues.

Will keep you guys posted.

This is why I like being part of the scene so much as understand these issues. T:

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hello,

I spoke to a lot of Vdubbers this weekend at Dubtoberfest about the issues with the DVLA.

A few people at the show had also had vans turned down and popped over for advise.

The great news is we can still cover vans that are converted and used as a camper at the campervan rates, so they do not have to be registered as a camper.

Someone mentioned the DVLA will be making an announcement on the website in the next 2 weeks.

Hope this helps with the insurance side at least.

All the best

Dan
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Yes its all about the speed limits! So sad. Vans are restricted because of their ability to carry loads and those loads may affect the stability of the vehicle thus the powers that be limit the speeds to 10 mph lower than e.g. van based motor caravans (California or conversions) which do not carry varying loads other than additional people and the odd bike on a rack or fridge full of food!
 

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Yes its all about the speed limits! So sad. Vans are restricted because of their ability to carry loads and those loads may affect the stability of the vehicle thus the powers that be limit the speeds to 10 mph lower than e.g. van based motor caravans (California or conversions) which do not carry varying loads other than additional people and the odd bike on a rack or fridge full of food!
And the extra batteries, gas bottles, built-in furniture, awnings, chairs, etc, etc.

It actually makes no real sense that a campervan that weighs the same as a commercial van when in use has different limits. I can run at upto 4.6t in my "Motor Caravan" and am typically at around 3.8t, but I can travel at higher speeds than a T5 that will be at a maximum of 3.2t (the highest any T5 can be). Not much logic in that
 

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I have just had refusal letter and same conversation as above.
Nearest type for my vehicle is "Van with Side windows".
I to was seeking what falls under exterior to make it a motor caravan.
Please advise how I stand as regard to insuring vehicle. Will I be insuring vehicle as vehicle which can carry 4 persons and interior to be insured as contents.
 

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I think the recent refusals are to do with the upcoming changes in "camper van" tax...
Also interested; are the DVLA even in charge of VED?

But if there is some relationship between the new decisions and the tax hike is huge, all that would happen is people won’t convert the v5 or they’ll convert to something else (like MPV, which I hear one of the new Cali’s is classed as), and the merry go round starts again albeit with people driving 10mph lower than the limit if they stay PV.

I think someone has already mentioned that insurance is still available for converted vans without motor caravan status, it seems to me that there’s not a huge amount to achieve other than the correct classification on paper and a legitimate speed limit at 70mph.

(I’m not advocating speeding but most cars seem to do 80, so a van doing 70 isn’t going to pick up too much attention in my mind).
 

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So I can't find any fact to the following as I got it as "Intelligence only" from a good government source but if true it would go some way to explain the change in DVLA stance on the Motor Caravan V5.

Apparently in 2020 there will be a one off 1st year of registration taxation on all Motor Caravans then an ongoing lower vehicle excise licence after the 1st year. In order to prevent the professional converters and DIY'ers buying a van (whether VW / Ducato etc) avoiding the initial 1st year high tax and then registering it as a 1 yr old Motor Caravan once the tax goes down.
Hence only factory registered motor caravans will be allowed to maintain the Motor Caravan status as they will have to pay the high tax from the off.

When I asked why would they want to hit Motor Caravan owners with higher tax in 1st year. The answer was that a number of Motor caravans are outside of the new ULEZ charges and there are more and more "vans" not being charged as they are MC's on the V5.

The DVLA don't want to tax MC's high all the time as it would cripple the 2nd hand market.

Just passing on what I heard, not sure it all makes sense, but there may or may not be some truth in it. In essence I believe there will be no more "normal" van conversions like the majority on here registered as Motor Caravans in the future.

As stated none of this is fact, just some informed rumours, perhaps someone with some good research may be able to find something about the new Motor Caravan taxation on the horizon.
Picked this up on the other forum. May shed some light if correct.
 

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I had my request to change from a van to camper denied today. I included a picture of my outside compared to another camper and they look the same. I'm at a loss on how to make it "Look like a Camper" think i might get VW campervan written on the outside and see if this works.........
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I had my request to change from a van to camper denied today. I included a picture of my outside compared to another camper and they look the same. I'm at a loss on how to make it "Look like a Camper" think i might get VW campervan written on the outside and see if this works.........
It will not make any difference :(

I spent the weekend at VW Jamboree and so many people having the same issues.

At least we can help and still insure them as Campers.

All the best

Dan
 

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LONDON EMISSION ZONE CHARGE

Sorry to swerve off subject slightly but my question is related and must be of widespread interest.

I have a T4 Multivan (2.5 tdi) called a 'Caravellel' in the log book and I want DVLA to it change to 'Campervan' as it has the manufacturers bed system and so is manufacturedfor sleeping in ie camping.
This would reduce the EZ charge to hopefully significantly less than the present £100 plus other charges totally £124/day in an area to extend soon to all London within the M25 circle.

How do I approach DVLA with the best chance of success bearing in mind, as this forum notes, that the van looks like a mini-bus?
Who do I approach in DVLA?
Is there a Forum initiated group response to this need?
Any other ideas please?

John
 

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LONDON EMISSION ZONE CHARGE

Sorry to swerve off subject slightly but my question is related and must be of widespread interest.

I have a T4 Multivan (2.5 tdi) called a 'Caravellel' in the log book and I want DVLA to it change to 'Campervan' as it has the manufacturers bed system and so is manufacturedfor sleeping in ie camping.
This would reduce the EZ charge to hopefully significantly less than the present £100 plus other charges totally £124/day in an area to extend soon to all London within the M25 circle.

How do I approach DVLA with the best chance of success bearing in mind, as this forum notes, that the van looks like a mini-bus?
Who do I approach in DVLA?
Is there a Forum initiated group response to this need?
Any other ideas please?

John
As DVLA don’t seem to be approving any changes to motor caravan, I’d suspect you’d suffer the same difficulties despite having the manufacturer bed system.

Seems that the current line is ‘if it didn’t come out the factory as a camper it won’t be reclassified’.

Everything I’ve read points to changes to VED payable on new campers and a general clamp down on reclassification if anything which doesn’t look like a coach built campervan.
 

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LONDON EMISSION ZONE CHARGE

Sorry to swerve off subject slightly but my question is related and must be of widespread interest.

I have a T4 Multivan (2.5 tdi) called a 'Caravellel' in the log book and I want DVLA to it change to 'Campervan' as it has the manufacturers bed system and so is manufacturedfor sleeping in ie camping.
This would reduce the EZ charge to hopefully significantly less than the present £100 plus other charges totally £124/day in an area to extend soon to all London within the M25 circle.

How do I approach DVLA with the best chance of success bearing in mind, as this forum notes, that the van looks like a mini-bus?
Who do I approach in DVLA?
Is there a Forum initiated group response to this need?
Any other ideas please?

John
The rules have changed regarding the London LEZ and new ULEZ - it will make no difference if your caravelle is a campervan or not to if you can enter the zones without charge.


Also, even if the DVLA had not changed their stance, your caravelle is not a campervan internally as it has no fixed cooking facilities. Having a seat that converts to a bed is not - and never has been - enough to classify it as a "Motor Caravan".
 
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