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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have an ex AA van (with WV2 body). I thought that all of necessary holes and captive nuts to fit very-rear Caravelle seat belt points were in place. It certainly looks like they are. Comments on these forums suggest that they are all there.

However, the captive nuts for the upper mounts (just above where the rear side windows would be) are clearly not for mounting seat belts. In fact, I'm not clear what you would want to use them for at all, except perhaps hanging Christmas decorations. They are just attached to the inner skin on a lip about 2mm deep. They pull right through with minimal effort (I know, cause I just have).

The other two mounts (for the reel, and for the other end) all seem robust.

So, what do I need to do to (or get someone to do) to create an upper attachment point?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
With about 1/1000th of the force associated with a crash (roughly) I managed to pull the captive nut (the one that came with the van, in the upper mount position) straight through the skin.
 

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Is yours LWB ? I know that in my van I have to have strengthening plates fitted for the seatbelts over the top at rear.
 

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Photos photos photos please. Just so we can see what is going on.
It definitely sounds like something is wrong.

You can fit your own mounting nut plates by threading them through the circular hole in the frame behind the seat belt mounting points. Its very fiddly, but it is possible. I have just done this, so the situation is not beyond hope. I could get some pictures up of what i did if it helps.

Very strange that they pulled through! If you have the lower two mounting points factory fitted, then the top one should be there too. I had to fabricate all of mine, as i have a panel van chassis.
 

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my ex-aa had lower nuts in place but the upper rail had a captive nut that was used for holding eitehr the tool chest or the bulkhead in place and was not beg enough to mount a seat belt to. i dont believe the upper rail is strengthend either. outer skin also needs spot welding to inner and without a window here thats not gonna happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
my ex-aa had lower nuts in place but the upper rail had a captive nut that was used for holding eitehr the tool chest or the bulkhead in place and was not beg enough to mount a seat belt to. i dont believe the upper rail is strengthend either. outer skin also needs spot welding to inner and without a window here thats not gonna happen.
Yes, this fits. So will a long thin spreader plate inside the upper rail give enough strength? It looks like it might be possible to push something through from further forward along the rail.

If not, what needs to be welded to what, where? Just in general terms - I'll need to get someone who knows what they are doing to do the welding.
 

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To fit them 'properly' would require the inner and outer skins to be welded together in the window aperture, as if there was a window fitted there. This is possible without fitting a window, but would be very difficult to do, and would burn the paint off the outside of the van, then requiring a partial re-spray.

My advice would be to leave the seat belts off and carry no rear passengers. With seat belts fitted, the current chassis configuration would probably be perfectly adequate in a crash, but it has not been tested, and therefore you will not know until you crash while carrying belted rear passengers. This is not just a moral/safety problem either. If you were to have a crash while carrying belted rear passengers or without rear passengers but with belts which are not certified, then your insurance would be well within the law to deny you any claim based on the presence of these unapproved belts (thew will use any excuse).
To make matters worse, there is a statement released by VW in their van modification literature which says to contact them directly for instructions on how to fit belts to a panel van chassis. This statement was investigated by forum members a while back (check the safety thread in the body section) and it transpires that this statement holds no water, and VW in fact have no retro fitment options available.
Ways around this are available. You could have your belts fitted by a certified coach builders (or similar) who could provide you with some sort of certificate of conformity. The other alternative, which almost everybody on the forum does, is just to take the risk and stick the belts in without any of the reenforcement you would find in the WV2 chassis.

I have rear belts fitted in my panel van for my multivan seat. I will also be adding rear windows complete with spot welded apertures. I dont think that even doing this will completely satisfy an insurance company (especially one who is trying to avoid a payout) as i done this myself, and have no formal qualifications in vehicle body work (aircraft body work yes) and cannot issue a certificate. I am doing this to satisfy myself that the rear seats are as safe as i can make them, and i am willing to take the risk with the insurance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks - particularly Dr Magpie - this is all really helpful.

Our van (ex AA) has the WV2 body and the lower belts mounts are in place. The question is whether the roof rail is effectively like a Caravelle's (but without the the seat belt mount) or are completely different and should be treated like a panel van. I don't know how to tell this. The body was I think worked on by ATT Papworth between it leaving VW and starting with the AA. You can see their signing-off thing in the photo below. I'm not sure they exist any more, at least not under that name.



In this picture the central round hole is where the obviously-not-for-seat-belts captive nut was (until I sneezed and it fell out).

The insurance / MOT thing has me a bit worried. We're insured with Brentacre and their attitude is that we can modify how we want. They don't need to see certificates. If someone is injured as a result of failure of a non VW approved fitting then I guess they might not pay out. But I've seen this as an argument for making sure that the belts don't fail.

With the MOT - people who have fitted non-standard belts in panel vans must be getting their vans through, surely?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I've just realised (I really should think these things through more carefully) that the Caravelle belts mount on the top of the window frame and not from the roof rail. See the picture in this thread. See second picture here: http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15603

I'm just going to look behind the lining to see what's there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've just peeled back the lining and there, smiling at me patronisingly, is the seat belt mount. I really do have for brains.
 

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I've just realised (I really should think these things through more carefully) that the Caravelle belts mount on the top of the window frame and not from the roof rail. See the picture in this thread. See second picture here: http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15603

I'm just going to look behind the lining to see what's there.
I have them mounted this way - the point shown in the link you posted for the top fixing is a proper threaded seat belt mounting point, as previously said. I think you'd struggle to pull that out!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Right, now we've established that this will work, and I'm an idiot...

Emmett or anyone: Do you have these fitted where there isn't a rear window? If so, I'd value idea about how to work the lining around the seat belt?
 

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Right, now we've established that this will work, and I'm an idiot...

Emmett or anyone: Do you have these fitted where there isn't a rear window? If so, I'd value idea about how to work the lining around the seat belt?
I'm pondering that now - just doing the insulation/lining on mine. I'm thinking a recess in the panel from the top mount, all the way down to the reel feed. Anything concealed is gonna be a pain in the harris to fit.
 
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