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Discussion Starter #1
Hello guys and gals,

I'm a regular on the T25 forum and have had T4's too but have a bit of an individual problem I hope someone can help with.

I have bought some 1j0 919 931 d non can 1999 golf diesel clocks and want to fit them into my T25. What I need is a wiring diagram for the clocks or someone who knows how the speedo, tach, fur and coolant gauges are driven. I've searched almost every forum I can find, exhausted google options and now have to post here as its my only option.

I have all the illumination and warning lights working but no dials. I also cannot stop the immobiliser lights from flashing.

I really hope someone can help me. Many thanks in advance T:

Regards,
Rich
 

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Hello guys and gals,

I'm a regular on the T25 forum and have had T4's too but have a bit of an individual problem I hope someone can help with.

I have bought some 1j0 919 931 d non can 1999 golf diesel clocks and want to fit them into my T25. What I need is a wiring diagram for the clocks or someone who knows how the speedo, tach, fur and coolant gauges are driven. I've searched almost every forum I can find, exhausted google options and now have to post here as its my only option.

I have all the illumination and warning lights working but no dials. I also cannot stop the immobiliser lights from flashing.

I really hope someone can help me. Many thanks in advance T:

Regards,
Rich
Speedo is driven by the VSS signal from the hall sender on the gearbox but there isn't an equivalent on a T3.

Tach is driven by the ECU engine speed signal output but again a T3 doesn't have an equivalent.

Fuel gauge is a simple input from the tank sender via a current-limited (~8V) supply from the instrument cluster.

Coolant signal is a simple resistance-to-ground type sensor much like you already have on your existing engine.

The immobiliser is flashing because the immobiliser 'lives' inside the instrument cluster, it can't see a key reader or a valid 'key' signal so it flashes away to denote a fault.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for your reply, that was great!

Ok but the speedo can be driven from a golf mk3 speedo sender (which attaches to a speedo cable) which is a hall sender, right?

Tach I don't know about yet but thinking of a sensor that sees the crank bolts and used that signal for a tach reading. Yes, no?

Sounds like I should be able to get the fuel and coolant working at least but I'm going to have to try to bench test them first, any ideas how I might do that?

Regards
Rich
 

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Thank you for your reply, that was great!

Ok but the speedo can be driven from a golf mk3 speedo sender (which attaches to a speedo cable) which is a hall sender, right?
No, because the T3 has much slower no. of pulses/unit of distance, so even if you do add a hall sensor to the front wheel of your T3 the speedo will under-read.

Tach I don't know about yet but thinking of a sensor that sees the crank bolts and used that signal for a tach reading. Yes, no?
No, not quite unless you are handy and can build your own sensing unit complete with signal conditioning and get the frequency right - it's not even a single rising edge per revolution (or even per injection event) if memory serves, so I don't think a crank sensor attached to the engine will be of any use to you.

Sounds like I should be able to get the fuel and coolant working at least but I'm going to have to try to bench test them first, any ideas how I might do that?
In all likelihood your tank sender will not be compatible with the Golf instruments which expects 330R (F) - 70R (E), T3 as far as I know is 40R (F) - 290 (E). There is no easy way to modify this without considerable skill and butchering of a Golf4 sender and T3 tank/tank sender.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
He's talking about Mk4 GOLF TDI instruments which gets the engine speed signal from the ECU
No I'm not. I'm talking about the non turbo golf 1.9. These clocks came from this engined vehicle. I've spent a considerable amount of time at a VW specialist today and have found quite a few things out. Also I have most of the original wiring diagrams for the whole golf, ecu and all.

Already got coolant working and the clocks fitted. Just need to get a speedo sensor or run a driveshaft sensor for the speedo.

Still a right minefield but being an ex RAF avionics engineer, I ain't scared Rasp:
 

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No I'm not. I'm talking about the non turbo golf 1.9. These clocks came from this engined vehicle. I've spent a considerable amount of time at a VW specialist today and have found quite a few things out. Also I have most of the original wiring diagrams for the whole golf, ecu and all.

Already got coolant working and the clocks fitted. Just need to get a speedo sensor or run a driveshaft sensor for the speedo.

Still a right minefield but being an ex RAF avionics engineer, I ain't scared Rasp:
TDI or SDI - the cluster is the same (1J0 919 931D) and is still driven by ECU so it wouldn't matter which engine version of the car you fitted them to. Good luck with it but I am doubtful as to whether you will be able to get the speedo correctly without a change to the look-up table for the speedo in the EEPROM.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi again. You were right. The clocks read 20mph slower than I'm actually doing. However before I changed these clocks over (due to the front tyre sizes) the clocks were reading around 10mph out so I'm thinking they're about 10mph out. Is there a way to change the clocks programming to sort out this difference?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Is there a way to change the clocks programming to sort out this difference?

Thanks in advance.
dunno about reprogramming the clocks, but you could repaint the numbers on the dial, or knock up a set of covers of your own. I'd do some calibration runs using a satnav to check on you actual/indicated speed at a number of velocities.

Penbryn knows is onions on this one, so I'm sure he'll be along sooner or later to give a definitive answer.

Cheers
Pete
 

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Hi again. You were right. The clocks read 20mph slower than I'm actually doing. However before I changed these clocks over (due to the front tyre sizes) the clocks were reading around 10mph out so I'm thinking they're about 10mph out. Is there a way to change the clocks programming to sort out this difference?

Thanks in advance.
As I said above:

...without a change to the look-up table for the speedo in the EEPROM.
To do this you will need a full (non-cracked) version of VAG Tacho (about £250) or VAG Commander (similar price). You then need to do a bit of maths to work out the correct scaling, convert it to hex and edit the speedo look-up table in the EEPROM.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks again for this info. I do have a friend who has the necessary software as he is a specialist in veedubs. However don't the clocks have to be in a car to be able to use vag tacho on them?

Could you give an example of the mathematics I will need to be working out for the scaling as it is in this area I'm going to get lost.
 

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Thanks again for this info. I do have a friend who has the necessary software as he is a specialist in veedubs.

If you are sure he has a full genuine copy of Tacho or Commander, then it should be straightforward to get the EEPROM dump. If it's not a genuine version of Tacho or Commander then do not even bother as it will turn the cluster into a paperweight.


However don't the clocks have to be in a car to be able to use vag tacho on them?
No...what makes you think that?

Could you give an example of the mathematics I will need to be working out for the scaling as it is in this area I'm going to get lost.
You will need to record the 'true' and 'indicated speeds' at 10, 20, 30, 50, 70MPH. Then plot these against each other and work out what the differenes are - it's not linear by the way. Then after having dumped your EEPROM you will have to figure at what addresses the look-up tables lie - I do not have a an EEPROM map for the 1J0-919-931x but I may be able to figure out where the lookup table is if you send me the dump.

As I said it's not an easy fix...nothing is ever as easy a it seems
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Right I'll get straight on to this with regard to VAG Tacho, I'm guessing that there is a specific lead that plugs straight into the clocks to allow comms?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just a quick question regarding another feature; does the coolant LEVEL light need to be grounded to get it to stop flashing at me?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The reason I asked is because the coolant sensor plug is so badly corroded that it now will not fit into the socket, so I guess I'll have to buy another one!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Another quick question as Ive tried and failed to get the tach to read anywhere near accurately, not to mention the fuel gauge being miles out. It was a good try but didnt work too amazingly :(

Anyway, are any of the golf mk3 diesel clocks easier to fit? I'm guessing at that age they may still have a cable driven speedo, and possibly a direct feed from the W terminal of the alternator for the tach. Am i right?

Rich :confused:
 

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Another quick question as Ive tried and failed to get the tach to read anywhere near accurately, not to mention the fuel gauge being miles out. It was a good try but didnt work too amazingly :(

Anyway, are any of the golf mk3 diesel clocks easier to fit? I'm guessing at that age they may still have a cable driven speedo, and possibly a direct feed from the W terminal of the alternator for the tach. Am i right?

Rich :confused:
I did try to explain in the beginning that this would not be simple.... I:

As for Golf 3 - no all are electronic speedo AFAIR. The TD engined Mk3's use the 'w' terminal for engine speed though, however the correct reading will depend on the pulleys you have on the alternator and crank - if you have old style vee-belt then the Golf instruments will read 'fast', you will need to convert to newer poly-vee alternator and crank pulleys for it to read correctly.

The good news is that the tank sender setup will be the same: 40R (F) - 290R (E).

In my opinion a Passat B4 TD or Transpoter T4 cluster is probably your best bet (cable speedo, w-term engine speed, etc)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I agree, I just so badly wanted the newer cleaner look. I guess it wasnt meant to be.

You were right, I was wrong.
You're big, I'm small.
You're an amazing uber god of all things clockie, I'm a muppet with a soldering iron!!

I:

Right then I will have a search about, as I have ben all over xmas for them. I hope i can find a decent set that someone doesn't want stupid money for.

I'll keep you posted.

:)
 
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