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Leisure battery not charging when driving

15K views 17 replies 8 participants last post by  ed-j  
#1 ·
Help! Sorry this is a bit long!

Went away this week for 3 nights to a site with no leccy hookup. It's the first time we've been to a site with no hook up. We wanted to see how long the fridge would run (it's a Waeco 'drawer' type - not sure of the model no). The leisure battery is 75ah. It lasted about 48 hours before the battery condition went to red (it's got a PMS3V panel). The real issue came when we got home after a 2 hour drive and the battery was still on red. Doesn't seem to have charged at all. We also have a problem with the fridge.

My OH has had a bit of a look - he's checked the voltage on the leisure battery when we plugged in our leccy hook up at home and says that's ok and it should charge fine when on hookup. He did the same with the engine on and the voltage at the leisure battery didn't increase at all. He's looked at the manual/wiring diagrams which came with the PMS3V unit (van was bought converted) and we've spent a while trying to follow cables through from the engine. OH doesn't think the circuit which charges the leisure battery from the alternator has been wired in :(

There are 2 cables going from the +ve on the van battery into the cab - we can see where they have been routed in on the passenger side but then they go under the floor trim and we don't know how to get the trim off to get a better look (bit nervous about breaking bits of my van!). We can just see one cable running round the pillar on the drivers side on the floor (where the seat belt is) and to the back of the fitted unit. Not sure if the other one has been routed elsewhere. OH thinks it might be routed somewhere else and should have a relay connected somewhere and the connection to the alternator to provide the charging.

He's checked the fuse which is on the cable from the van battery - that's fine.

OH took the PMSV3 out to have a look at all the connections on the back and was a bit surprised to see that the 'fridge in' and 'fridge out' had no cables going into them. We 'thought' the fridge was cooling when we were driving around but OH said, looking at the diag. and how it was actually wired up - there's no way it could be. Looking back, we weren't 100% sure it was actually cooling while driving so we went out for 45mins (have got a thermometer in the fridge) and it stayed at a cool 25C H: When we got home we plugged leccy in and checked after 45mins and it was a much cooler 7C. So - the fridge doesn't cool when we're driving around. For some reason the fridge has been wired into the PMS 'aux1' instead of - fridge!

OH is a bit suspicous now - because the fridge isn't wired up to run when driving around he thinks maybe the circuit which charges the leisure battery from the alternator hasn't been wired in either :( He said it would be weird to do all the work to put the split charge stuff in and not sort the fridge out while you're there! He's keen to trace the 2nd wire which is coming off the battery incase it's floating around somewhere and not connected to anything (he's going to take the fuse out for now).

We're a bit unsure what to do next. OH is happy doing electrical stuff and now he's had a look at the manual and a few things online he's confident he could put in a split charge system. But - I bought the van converted and (I thought) ready to go (it's a new convertsion) because we just don't have the space to do substantial work on the van and due to various reasons we really wanted the van 'now' because we have the chance to use it a lot this year. I wasn't expecting that we'd have to start ripping out bits of my newly converted van to fix the split charge system :mad: Already planning to do our next van ourselves!

I have tried to get hold of the company which did the conversion today to talk to them but no luck. We were hoping to get away again in a few days so wanted to try and sort it - but OH thinks it might be a bit of a job taking stuff out to find out where (and indeed IF!) the relay is and if it's wired up properly. I'm confident he can do it but it's more that he doesn't know his way round the engine & how to take the trim off/dashboard out etc. and where to tap into the the ignition warning light. Nevermind that we'll have to work out how to dismantle the furniture to get behind that too. Argh - feel like crying now! It's so frustrating.

Don't really want the van out of action for ages so we might have to live with it only working on EHU and OH said we can get a solar panel and use that to charge the leisure battery when we're on site (we might go for one fixed to roof - but again, depends if we can wire it up without having to dismantle too much of the van).

So, erm - any suggestions/thoughts/advice?! Please?!
 
#2 ·
Sounds like a split charge issue. Have you checked under the scuttle panel behind the battery to see if the split charger is in there. That's where I'd start. If there is one then sounds like its not functioning properly.

If its not there it could be inside I'd be looking close to the leisure battery for it then.
 
#4 ·
If you have a PMS3 fitted then it does not include a split charge relay and the fridge connections on the rear are designed for 3 way fridges and not a compressor fridge - this hould be connected directly to the leisure battery via a 15a fuse.
Its a shame your converters are not answering their calls and that they dont include any decent instructions with a conversion as this should resolve most problems. Personally we carry out a detailed handover and include laminated instructions on how everything works, we also answer out of hours phone calls if customers have any questions.
 
#6 ·
Thanks! That's interesting (about the Fridge connections being for a 3-way) - shame it doesn't mention that in the instruction sheet anywhere! If that's the case - I don't understand how we can have the fridge running when we are driving??

It's not the first issue we've had with the conversion - which is still unresolved but something non-mechanical (but annoying because it should have been done right) and I've decided to live with it for now.
 
#5 ·
As Ed-J said above the fridge isnt connected to the PMS3 charging unit, it is connected directly to the leisure battery.
The cable you found running to the front cab is the 'switch over' cable between leisure battery and van battery if your leisure battery fails (only use in emergencies!)
You should be looking for a new/clean cable (probably red or brown and quite big) coming from the main battery (maybe alternator) that runs towards the general direction of your 2nd battery. ALong the route you should come across a split charger (about 40x40x40mm) and an inline fuse- my guess is the fuse or VSR (voltage sensitive relay) has failed- if its the fuse then it maybe the leisure batteries were very discharged.
Reading everything you discovered re. your wiring of the PMS3 I'd say it has been installed correctly and I shouldnt worry too much. Fuses can blow if 2nd batteries are too discharged so put it on a mains charger for a few hours before replacing the fuse and hopefully that will solve the problemT:
 
#7 ·
The cable you found running to the front cab is the 'switch over' cable between leisure battery and van battery if your leisure battery fails (only use in emergencies!)
Sorry - my OH did know this. I forgot to put that in. That's wired up ok. Well, it seems to work anyway. When we switch to 'car' the battery condition light comes on and we can run the fridge - although it's something I would never do. Cold beers aren't more important than being able to start your engine LOL!

Yes - the fridge is connected directly to the leisure battery via AUX1 - does that mean it can't be running whilst driving? I find this a bit pointless really. How will I have cold beer on arrival at a campsite?! :*

Thanks for the other info - we'll have another look but I fear it's not installed correctly because we don't think the battery has ever charged when driving. It was a new battery when we got it and the 2nd green light was lit (one below High I think. It's never gone to High). I'm sure the leisure battery had dropped to the 1st green light when we used it once and didn't go up again until we went onto hookup. I know my OH wasn't convinced it was charging whilst driving - which is why we tried it out properly this week.

Hopefully I can get hold of the guy who did the van and ask him where the fuse for the split charger is located. Guess if he can't tell me we have a problem!
 
#8 ·
Ok - replying to myself here! My OH just got up and I said about the fridge and he's looked at the PMS3V info again and realised it says AC for fridge. DOH.

Have to say I'm not very happy that we seem to have a fridge which can't run when we're driving! Maybe I'm missing something here about having a camper but I thought the whole point of the fridge was so you can keep stuff cool when you're driving between sites?! I have accidentally driven round with the PMS switched to 'van' and the fridge was running - but in the instructions for the PMS says it is recommended that the selector be in the 'off' position when driving. Oops.
 
#9 ·
#10 ·
Hmmmmm the plot thickens. I went and looked at the ad for our van again and it says:

ZIG CF9 – providing 12v for fridge and charging of leisure battery whilst on the move, incorporating the ability to run lighting, charging and 240v fridge of hook up mains. The ZIG unit also allows for emergency use of the vehicle battery if leisure battery if run down.

It also says:
Wiring to ignition for 12v fridge when on the move

Although I did a lot of research before buying the van (obviously not enough but still!) I (foolishly it seems) relied on the description of the spec. when ticking off my 'wishlist' and it seemed to meet most of my requirements.

I've just googled a ZIG CF9 - that ain't what's in our van!

I know you should research stuff before you buy it but to be honest I don't see why I should learn all the technical stuff about the electrical side of this anymore than I understand exactly how my TV works etc. etc. I'm starting to feel a bit ripped off/deceived in so much as the van description clearly states that the fridge can be running while you're on the move and it was one of the things on my wishlist. Thought it was wrong to sell stuff which is not as described??!!
 
#11 ·
where in uk are you im in coventry if your local pop round and ill sort it out for you, most of these fancy chargers/units are a waste of time nothing more than a fancy bank of switches, keep it simple and its a lot easier to fix when a fault happens, can you take pics of what you have so we can see and a zig cf9 is utter rubbish be glad you aint got that lol
 
#13 ·
Sorry to hear you're having this grief with your van - I think the people who converted it for you should at the very least resolve this issue and then actually take you through a step-by-step on how things run/work and what to expect. I've yet to fit a split charge to mine, but it looks like you're getting some good solid help already in this thread. Don't let it get you down - you'll get this sorted and looking at the weather outside, there's fun times to be had in these vans this year T: chin up!
 
#15 ·
An all to common story unfortunately. There are way too many "converters" out there that shouldn't be doing electrics at all as they have no comprehension of the subject.
There are plenty of quality conversions available from forum traders and they, like Ed-J says, are helpful and knowledgeable.
We should have a name and shame section to weed out these poor quality guys.
 
#16 ·
I'm sure you're right! I'm pleased with the van mostly and it's a good 'first' van (yeah - I'm already speccing the next one in my head!!).

We think it's fixed now although I think it would take hours to charge the battery up from red just by driving around. My OH worked it out (based on the fuse fitted and size of battery etc. I dunno - he knows about this stuff!) and reckons we'd have to drive for 5 hours :eek: I believe it has a VSR (?) fitted now. It's not coming off the alternator. Would the leisure battery charge quicker if it did?
 
#17 ·
Hi barnowl.

I'm no expert at this stuff but we have a similar set up to you by the sounds of things. So maybe these points might help?

I have a PMS and a compressor fridge. I also have a 140amp VSR to charge the 100ah battery. I've found the voltage indicator on the PMS is a bit flaky. It essentially never reads above normal unless there is charge from the engine or via the 240v mains trickle charger in the PMS unit. I've charged my battery using a separate ctek multi stage charger to 100%, connected it back in the van and the PMS still says normal!

We've also run the fridge for a good day or so with the panel reading red... Admitily this wasn't in hot weather, so the fridge wasn't working too hard (a waeco 50 BTW) we get about 3 days from our 100ah battery with careful light use, water pump and the fridge. We don't use inverters or anything...

Running the engine for about an hour will bring our battery from being in the red on the PMS back up to normal. Though the common opinion on here seems to be that split charge systems will never up more than about 70% charge back into your battery.

Our fridge is wired directly to the leisure battery too. We just set it to 4/5 and leave the battery selector switch on the PMS set to van - even when driving. Another thing our fitters told us to do...

Also the waeco fridges have a low voltage cut off to prevent them fully discharging the battery. They just don't turn on if there isn't enough power in your battery... Which could be why your driving about recharge tests show the fridge not working?

Hope some of the helps...
 
#18 ·
I know the PMS isnt a 100% solution, but we find it does 95% of what we want in a compact and easy to understand package. What you are seeing on the voltage display is normal - ie when your battery is 100% charged (or probably 80-90%), the reading is in the middle. No matter how long you charge your battery its not going to get above 12.8volts when at rest.
When getting a trickle charge it will probably get to the next green light and an alternator charge (14+ volts ) will get it into the top sector.
For normal use you are really looking at mid green, low green and red.

You will find that with a heavy duty VSR set up, you should be able to replenish a low battery quite quickly when running the engine. Where people suffer is when a cheap 20-30A relay is fitted for the charging. Yes it will charge, but limited to a low rate of charge, but if it does have a heavily discharged leisure battery to cope with either the relay or the fuse can blow.