[Curtis1222]

Hello, First of all would like to say thanks to everyone that's offered advice on here!

Just a follow up for anyone reading this in the future, Found the problem with the van the mark on the cam gear wouldn’t like up with the back of the head properly as it was half a tooth out as show in the 2 photographs below. This will cause you to have the fault code;
- 19464 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) : Signal out of range - P3008
or
- 16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) : Implausible Signal P0341

The engine will start and then immediately turn off.

The next thing to check is the assembly position timing mark. you can see this by looking through the hold where the eccentric pin goes through. Below is what mine looked like.

There are 2 different arrangements based on which engine you have. But here’s what it should look like.

As you can see mine was 1 tooth out here. Because this gear is moving at crank speed 1 tooth out here means 1/2 a tooth out on the cam. On a side note if this is 2 or any even number of teeth out the engine would have timed up fine.


I decided to take the timing case apart. This is a big job and involves removing the sub frame, Gearbox, clutch & flywheel as well as the sump. Pretty much engine out.

Below is a picture of the gear train, I have taken off the gear set below the 'intermediate' gear in this photo.

Here is the gearset removed, as you can see its just 2 different size gears bolted together. This is responsible for halving the cam speed. All I did to correct the timing issue was move the gearset to the timing mark and bolt it back into the gear train housing.

I then refitted everything and re timed the engine and it all lined up perfectly and i now have no codes in the ECU with all sensors plugged in.

Did this make any difference to the van, no not really. No difference in power that I can tell. Starts a bit quicker though. But it’s nice to know its right, and maybe if the crank sensor fails the cam would be the backup🤷‍♂️

Hope this helps someone in the future!

Curtis.

 

[festa]

Yeah this is what I was thinking, 1 tooth here would equal 1/2 tooth on the cam pulley. Which is what I've got crank is locked the other end. How do you go about adjusting?

You have removed the inner pin and the outer adjuster as well as the gear. On the plate that comes down from the camgear there is a mark at around 9 oclock which shound line up with the inner adjuster which the gear runs on, look carefully as it is there....these marks must line up. Then the eccentric pin can be fitted and set for 12 oclock, put cam gear on and hand tighten the bolt and you should be able to get the mark on the cam gear bang on....remember to well oil all parts of the adjuster so it can all move freely.

 

[Curtis1222]

You have removed the inner pin and the outer adjuster as well as the gear. On the plate that comes down from the camgear there is a mark at around 9 oclock which shound line up with the inner adjuster which the gear runs on, look carefully as it is there....these marks must line up. Then the eccentric pin can be fitted and set for 12 oclock, put cam gear on and hand tighten the bolt and you should be able to get the mark on the cam gear bang on....remember to well oil all parts of the adjuster so it can all move freely.

Yeah all sorted now as in post 41, because the crank side of the gear set was 1 tooth out it was impossible to get correct timing on the cam. I've since adjusted that, timed up and set back lash as you say and it's perfectly in time.

Curtis

 

[Car Doctors]

Is my first time working on a diesel Engen just want to be sure about my timing marks

 

[Cellutron]

Hey bud have you used the correct timing tools make the crank is locked up in the correct place then lock the cam up then check the cam sensor plate if it still out then u can loosen the top gear and move it to locate flat against the head iv done a few of these camshaft replacement

This is a late contribution to ...,,,,,
The problem in these engines: the cam gear is not keyed in by design! The line on the sensor wheel has relevance in so far as it provides a datum to the sensor and decoding by the ecu program. It will never be a horizontal match for the edge of the head as one tooth up or down will throw it miles away from the edge. The rule is that it should be parallel to the edge as close as the teeth spacing allows. So it will never be spot on so to speak. But this is secondary to the cam timing issue. The principal factor is to have the valves’ state for TDC no1. as determined by VW gurus, set. So the crucial determinant is where the lobes for no. 1 should be because a complete turn of the cam equals 2 turns of the crank- there are two states at which both valves can be shut and piston 1 at the TDC! This means you can easily be 180 degrees without realising it!
A good tool can make a big difference! Theoretically, tool should only fit in one way. But most Chinese tools fits both ways! The correct position of camshaft is utmost in setting the cam gear position. If like me you bought the abdominal tool over a year ago, you can’t even get your revenge and start an eBay return to get your money back.
So to the guy that started this almost a year ago, your gear mark is fine, but perhaps the cam lobes are facing the wrong way! At combustion, exhaust valve should be almost ready to open and discharge the exhaust.

 

[west0ne]

So just to check, we are talking cam lobes pointing up on the new cam? Will the original be pointing up at tdc? before its removed?

 

[T5 TDI]

..there are two states at which both valves can be shut and piston 1 at the TDC!

I haven't done this job but that bit certainly isn't right. Most engines are timed up with no 1 piston at TDC and crucially, on the firing (compression) stroke. Both valves will be fully closed at this point. There is a tiny overlap point where the inlet valve starts to open ready for the next charge of (compressed and cooled) air as the exhaust gasses are still leaving but as far as looking at the cam lobes it shouldn't be possible to get the cam 180 degrees out if the lobes on No 1 are both facing upwards because on the next visit of the piston to TDC the engine will be on the exhaust stroke where the exhaust valve/s will be clearly open. Therefore, if the crank is locked at TDC on number one cylinder and both cam lobes are facing upwards (valves closed) that is the correct position and it can't be 180 degrees out.

 

[festa]

The concentric pin is the adjuster...it has nothing to do with the other marks and those marks in the wrong place won't make a difference to the timing. The cam gear needs to be loose with the camshaft locked with the key, this shouls keep the cylinder 1 valve lobes in the upward position. There is two parts of the concentric gear and itnees the pin to be oiled so it can adjust with the two pin tool.The pin also needs to go in a certain position to start and then there is another mark on the outer part that needs to be lined up with it's own mark. What Curtis done was a wasted exercise.

 

[Curtis1222]

The concentric pin is the adjuster...it has nothing to do with the other marks and those marks in the wrong place won't make a difference to the timing. The cam gear needs to be loose with the camshaft locked with the key, this shouls keep the cylinder 1 valve lobes in the upward position. There is two parts of the concentric gear and itnees the pin to be oiled so it can adjust with the two pin tool.The pin also needs to go in a certain position to start and then there is another mark on the outer part that needs to be lined up with it's own mark. What Curtis done was a wasted exercise.

Hi Festa,


I agree with what you’re saying to an extent.

Mechanically where the marks are on the cam gear and the assembly mark on the "gear set" make no difference. This was proven by the fact engine ran fine without the cam sensor connected. (The marks are only there to line up the cam position sensor in reality.)


However, once I connected the cam sensor, the ECU could see that the cam and crank relationship was not right and so would not start.


The issue I had was that by re timing by locking the cam in position with the tool and tightening the cam gear it was always a little bit out (1/2 tooth).


The reason I had to strip down the covers for the gear train is so that I could adjust the timing by 1 tooth relative to the crank (1/2 tooth cam) in order for the cam sensor to see the correct value.


One this was done I then had no error codes for cam timing or signal and it started straight away with all sensors plugged in. confirming the ECU was seeing the correct relationship between cam & crank sensors.


Curtis

 

[festa]

The reason I had to strip down the covers for the gear train is so that I could adjust the timing by 1 tooth relative to the crank (1/2 tooth cam) in order for the cam sensor to see the correct value.

So how did this help with moving the cam gear by ! tooth? there is no adjustment of any kind under the gear cover. You could have just removed the cam gear from the end of the camshaft and turned it over by hand to advance or retard by one tooth. The concentric gear would then give you a finer adjustment before you tighten the cam gear to the end of the camshaft.. I've stripped and built a few of these engines now and I can't understand how you have done this.

 

[FowlerT5]

Good day.

I am looking for the torque settings for each of the timing gears. can anyone here help?

Also I am having issues aligning the timing mark on the cam. block and head have had work. I have been advised to modify the reluctor ring. has anyone had experiance of this?

Many thanks

 

[Micka86]

Bonjour pourriez vous donner les couples de serrage des 5 vis du pignon intermédiaire sur la cascade de pignon merci d'avance

 

[festa]

Bonjour pourriez vous donner les couples de serrage des 5 vis du pignon intermédiaire sur la cascade de pignon merci d'avance

"Hello, could you give you the tightening torques of the 5 screws of the intermediate pinion on the sprocket cascade, thank you in advance"
There isn't any torque values for those bolts as VW state they're a non serviceable part and the gears are not replaceable..