As far as I can tell we are looking at ISO9141-2 (I have a 2004 T5) using pin 7 K line and sometimes 15 L for KKL.
Although there is enough data and data rate to achieve the desired result, no one has written the software to display this on Android or IOS. And as you say the PC is too cumbersome for daily use.

At a guess 2007+ models of T5 are CAN bus and will work. No help I know and I wouldn't know where t begin decoding the signal let alone writing the code

 

I have seen the Bertha The Bus blog and his use of Garmin's Eco-Route, but I'm unsure if this actually uses OBD data or if it's based on GPS and acceleration/deceleration data.

I've been researching this too, planning to buy the Garmin Mechanic EcoRoute HD dongle when my van arrives in March. If you read the Garmin specs for the dongle, you can infer that it ~must~ use OBD data. The reason (I think) why people get confused is that Garmin have a more basic EcoRoute function built into their satnavs which works from just the GPS data.

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=38354

From what I can tell, when you add the dongle it doesn't actually start to give you meaningful data until you start to use the "At the pump" feature to show how much fuel you are putting in. Only then can it start to give you real, calibrated real-time info on MPG.

Once the van arrives I'll buy one online, plug it in and see if it works. If not it can go back within 7 days under DSRs for a full refund.

 

Thanks for the replies.

Fingerpost, this is as I feared. It's just a case of someone incorporating the correct protocol into their hardware. Potentially, someone must've written this code in already and there must be a device other than the prototype VCDS Mobile app that displays at least some of the data. I have seen a picture (somewhere on the T4Forum, I'm sure) of someone having installed a ScanGauge II (different to the Ultragauge) but it may not have been in their T5, but it may be a later model CAN bus version.

Triffic, I think EcoRoute HD is looking like the only way then. I see where my confusion over EcoRoute laid now. Bertha the bus definitely used the dongle, and it's an '04 van, and the owner is some kind of motor engineer, so it looks like a viable option. It's an expensive way when compared with the other interfaces out there! Do let me know if your plan works.

 

It's an expensive way when compared with the other interfaces out there! Do let me know if your plan works.

Ok, but it's not ~that~ expensive if you already have a compatible device (that includes some Android smartphones now) at just over £70 shipped - Amazon seems cheaper than ebay ATM.

The way I look at it is that it's a lot cheaper than the original £300 VW trip computer - which unlike Cruise Control I couldn't justify as an original fit option - and you get fault codes up on the display as well, so I don't have to buy a fault code reader as well.

 

Yes, I suppose if you have an Android device or a Garmin Nuvi it becomes as expensive as the Scan/Ultra/Whatever Gauge would be anyway.

I only have my iPhone, but I've had a breakthrough just now on my Kindle Fire HD. That's android-ish, and although the UK Amazon doesn't have Garmin Mechanic in its App Store, the US Amazon does, suggesting it's compatible. A little bit of Googling led me to a procedure called "side-loading" and I found a little site called 1mobile.com which has Garmin Mechanic on, and it's installed!!!

Now, where did I put all my Amazon gift vouchers?

 

I've shoehorned Torque Free onto my Kindle too.

Based on this post on the forum, I'm hoping the Bluetooth ELM327 dongle that's winging its way to me from an eBay UK seller will do just the trick. Torque appears to be hugely customisable, and the pro version is only £2.95 !!!

 

I've shoehorned Torque Free onto my Kindle too.

Based on this post on the forum, I'm hoping the Bluetooth ELM327 dongle that's winging its way to me from an eBay UK seller will do just the trick. Torque appears to be hugely customisable, and the pro version is only £2.95 !!!

Don't hold your breath that this will work on pre-2006/2007 vans, see this thread and post #13 espcially.

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=242167&page=2

Has anybody actually confirmed 100% that Bertha The Bus was a 2004 model ?

I can answer my own question as on the Blog site there are some photos and I clicked on a small one that showed a front view of the van and it enlarged and clearly showed it is indeed a 2004 registered model.

So it looks like the Garmin EcoRoute HD Dongle in conjuction with the Gamin Mechanic Android App is the way forward for me. T:

 

Well that all sounds promising. Fingers crossed and let us know how it goes.

 

Glitch, that seems to be the trend of what people are saying - that pre-2006 commercial vehicles aren't OBD II compliant, and I'm inclined to believe it, but I keep seeing posts of people saying they have an eBay bluetooth dongle coupled with Torque Pro on their Android phone and it all works. There are a couple of posts from people with T4s that say it works, too. So the logic say, that's older, right? So it must work in mine!

I've had a few developments in my research recently.

• Firstly, though I got Torque onto my Kindle Fire HD, the Kindle doesn't connect to any old bluetooth item. It's gotta be a speaker, headset, microphone or keyboard only.
  
• Secondly, in the absence of an Android device, I tried connecting the ELM327 dongle with my laptop, which worked!!!.
  
• Thirdly, however, it wouldn't connect with Easy OBD II, or DashCommand for Windows. It cited "Interface communication failure", and "OBD-II Error: Error detecting OBD-II protocol" respectively.
  
• Lastly, and rather sadly, I discovered that VCDS Lite has an EOBD/OBDII compatability test built into it, and my van failed. Pic is below.

Here's the log from DashCommand, so I know it's the van and not the dongle.....
[21:21:00.000] Searching for ELM interface...
[21:21:00.000] Checking COM3...
[21:21:01.234] Found ELM interface on COM3!
[21:21:16.875] OBD-II Error: Error detecting OBD-II protocol.


The van seems to be talking KWP2089 to the VCDS engine management controller. Surely this is some other kind of OBD protocol? And if not, I'm sure it's just a case of writing the code to request the data.

And the pic confirming my 2005 AXB isn't EOBD/OBDII compliant.

 

OK,

done a bit more research and reading it would appear it's a pretty hit and miss affair regarding which adaptor will work with which vehicle within the VAG group and that applies to T4's & T5's as well as its all down to which ECU Comms protocol is being used on a particular model and year of vehicle (but I think we knew that).

Basically pre-2006 there were two protocol being used by VAG KWP1281 (earlier) & KWP2089 (later) which are both VAG proprietary variations of the ISO 14230/KWP2000 standard. So I'm thinking that even though a cheap Ebay special Bluetooth ELM327 Dongle may state it' supports ISO14230/KW it won't necessarily support the VAG variant of this protocol.

After 2006 we know that T5's generally moved to CAN Bus so the ELM327 dongles should work with these vans.

Had a a read of the Torque forum (and registered) and found this thread ;-

http://torque-bhp.com/forums/?wpforumaction=viewtopic&t=1573.0

And this quote from the developer of Torque himself (post on September 21, 2012 ) -

"ELMs wont do KWP1281 (afaik) for VW vehicles, but for VW’s that use CANBUS it should be possible to use them.

For a vehicle that uses KWP you will need the WBH-BT4 adapter which has specific support for that protocol".

Since then this statement has not been amended or updated so I'm assuming it still stands, but just to confirm I have posted the question in the thread it resides in to see if this is also applicable for vehicles using the KWP2089 protocol (I suspect it is I just want confirmation)

The WBH-BT4 dongle is available at http://www.obd2-shop.eu/wbhbt4-p-213.html?language=en for the princely sum of about £56.

 

I'm very tempted by that dongle. If it works with Torque Pro, then that would be ideal.

My ELM does not work with the Torque app on Android - I tested it this weekend on my girlfriend's phone - and it's again a protocol problem.

As I understand it, if the problem is the ELM not sending the correct info to Torque, and not that the Torque app is unable to read the data, then the WBH-BT4 dongle should work with Torque? I shall email the website to see if they accept returns on non-working devices. Their rental service, intended for testing compatability, doesn't extend outside of Germany.

 

I am a little confused re what will and wont work I have a 2004 1.9 AXB engined T5 will this model be compatible with the torque app and my ecu ??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM327-Bl...OPEL-AUDI-VW-/261122364329?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3ccc1b13a9

 

I am a little confused re what will and wont work I have a 2004 1.9 AXB engined T5 will this model be compatible with the torque app and my ecu ??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM327-Bluetooth-1-5-OBD2-Diagnostic-COM-Interface-Code-Scanner-BMW-OPEL-AUDI-VW-/261122364329?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3ccc1b13a9

In a nut shell - No.

This is exactly the same ELM237 dongle I purchased for use with my 2005 2.5 van and it doesn't work as it does not support the VW specific version of the ECU comms protocol.

 

I'll second what Glitch said. Don't waste your money.

I've got a 2005 AXB 1.9 and my ELM327 dongle doesn't work with torque, or any other software I've tried for that matter.

Our vans, it seems, are not OBDII compliant, and all the ELM327 dongles only talk to OBDII compliant vehicles.

 

I'll second what Glitch said. Don't waste your money.

I've got a 2005 AXB 1.9 and my ELM327 dongle doesn't work with torque, or any other software I've tried for that matter.

Our vans, it seems, are not OBDII compliant, and all the ELM327 dongles only talk to OBDII compliant vehicles.

Just to clarify, the ELM327 dongle I purchased does work fine with Torque when I plug it into my 2009 Mitsubishi Colt RalliArt as that vehicle is OBDII compliant. So nothing wrong with Torque or the Dongle.

It is purely down to the Dongle being used and its ability to support the correct communication protocol i.e. the pre-OBDII protocol (Variant KWP2089 ) that VW were using on pre-2006 vans.

Torque will support the majority of the ELM327 Bluetooth dongles as they are all using the same chipset and firmware (hardcode) so they tend to be supported by default.

The only Dongle that is supported by Torque that will read the pre-OBDII VW protocol is the WBH-BT4, however it's unclear on the Torque forum if Torque will read the KWP2089 protocol, I can only find a statement from the author of Torque that it will support the KWP1281 protocol (another one used by VW pre-OBDII).

 

Messaged the supplier of this one he says it should work it has the KWP protocol what do you guys reckon

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221172189880&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

 

Messaged the supplier of this one he says it should work it has the KWP protocol what do you guys reckon

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221172189880&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

If I was a betting man I would say this won't work because although its supports the KWP2000 based protocols it wont I suspect support the VW variants of this protocol.

However I do note that the seller does offer a money back returns policy (inc postage) if it doesnt work so you don't really have anything to loose apart from a bit of your time.

 

I would be interested to hear your feedback Austin man, but i don't hold out much hope.
In short my view of the topic, having read all the relevant threads on the Torque forum and here, is that its just not going to happen for owners of early T5's like mine. Spending £70 odd for limited functions just isn't worth the effort or expense. Fair play to Ian , The Torque developer, he really has put a lot of time into this on behalf of VW owners, and yet we still can't be sure that kw2089 is supported, or even relevant! There are even guys on the Torque forum trying to communicate with 2009 onwards Golf models which don't appear to be obd2.
Very negative I know and I would be happy to be proved wrong.

 

I got a response from the German manufacturers of the WBH-BT4 dongle.

My email............

Sirs,

Please excuse my use of English, I cannot speak German, but I have a
query on the WBH-BT4 Bluetooth interface.

I own a 2005 VW Transporter T5 1.9TDi and I have VCDS and a VCDS cable
which works perfectly with my laptop. I would like to achieve having
a smaller permanent device in my van that displays Litres/hour, and
other gauges. I am currently thinking that I can achieve this with an
Android device and the Torque Pro app connected by Bluetooth to the
WBH-BT4. ELM327 bluetooth dongles appear not to work with my van. Is
this something you think I can achieve?

I note that your rental service applies to Germany only, so I also
wondered if you accept returns if the WBH-BT4 doesn?t work?

Kind regards.​

Their response............

The Torque App did not support the WBH BT4 completely. Please ask the author of the App before you try the WBH BT4. The WBH BT4 should work with your T5 if VCDS use the protocol KW1281 or KW20xx (shown in the first screen after connection to a ECU).
Please visit our car list
http://www.blafusel.de/misc/obd2_scanned.php

with best regards
Schäffer​

So it seems to all rest on the support of the app. The dongle appears to support the necessary protocols.

 

All well and good Architec,
Having read the Torque forum thread where he discussed what he could and couldn't do I came to the conclusion it just wasn't worth the £70 for the German dongle. Even if it seems they think it does work.

 

My two pennies worth...my 06 t5 and an 06 polo don't work with the app as it can't communicate with the ecu. However a 08 caddy it does work quite well so as said a protocol problem.

 

Which dongle are you using? Is it an ELM327 type? Or another?

 

This thread started on the subject of Garmin's Ecoroute HD dongle, and the question of whether it works with a T5.

I've just bought one and connected it up to my new T5 and first signs are that it does work as advertised. Except... that each time you start the van the dongle sits there sulking until you hit its Reset button. As the dongle is in the driver's footwell this is a very unwelcome "feature".

I'll be giving Garmin a few days to tell me whether it can be fixed. If not it will be returned for a refund. Shame...

 

That's a shame. Is your van a new new van or an old new van?!

 

Sorry, should have updated the thread. The need for a reset went away when I finally got the two paired properly. It's worked absolutely fine apart from one occasion (in a couple of months now) when they lost sync with one another. The initial pairing is a bit of a "hit or miss" affair, but it is pretty reliable after that.

It's a new van (as in registered in April).

The gauges mostly work, but there are some that I don't believe - e.g. "Engine Load" which sits at (IIRC) 28% when the van is idling!

The "At the pump" feature works well, as it stores a record of every fill with mileage, cost and fill amount which you can transfer to your PC for analysis - which should give a good long-term view of MPG, as I don't think the entries ever get deleted.

 

Would it be safe /unsafe to think that a Bluetooth odb2 dongle would work with a 2008 T5? I've lost track of what will and won't work by the end of these posts...

Cheers

Tom

 

There are reasons to believe that the EcoRoute HD dongle won't work with a pre-facelift T5, but the only way to know for sure is to try it.

As current DSR's allow you 7 days to return a product that is bought online, irrespective of reason, it seems all you need to do is make sure you already have any other bits needed when it is delivered, and if it doesn't work, send it back for a refund. You will need to pay return shipping if it's not faulty.

 

I'd like to ressurect this thread.

It crossed my mind recently, after searching for projects to do with a Raspberry Pi, that a lot more development has happened in the last year with regards KWP1281 and KWP2089 - to the extent that a new WBH-BT5 is out, and there is a guide for connecting it to the Torque app. You can also now get android tablets from Amazon for £30, which I'm sure are shooooite, but could be worth a try.

My van has flown through another MOT and I still want to play! Has anyone figured out a pre-2006, KWP2089 way of getting something like Torque to run in their van?

 

I must admit I'm having a rethink, and looking to discard the Garmin Ecoroute HD. It's reliable and works well, but the method of getting it to sync with van and satnav is ridiculously tedious - you have to go through the procedure every time you unplug/plug in the dongle, and I need to do this regularly so I can plug something else into the diagnostic port.

The design is poor, because it won't let you sync while moving (presumably in case you crash while it happens and someone sues them) so you have to sit there for 5 minutes while it does what it does - if you start to drive, the whole process gets aborted.

So I'm going to ditch it and get a £60 refurbed Hudl plus a cheap Bluetooth dongle. My van is recent enough to have more standard OBD2 connectivity, so I don't need the expense of a WBH-BT5, fortunately...

 

Interesting thread, I've ordered a odb2 bluetooth dongle to see if I can get torque working on my T4, it'd be nice to have boost and oil temp, if nothing else.

Now, how to integrate an android display into the dash...

 

Now, how to integrate an android display into the dash...

Same here - I'm thinking that trying to build something that big in may be too much of a challenge, so atm thinking more about making an arm mount instead. Won't be trivial, as a Hudl (or anything else equivalent) is going to weigh a third of a kilo...

As a matter of interest, what dongle are you going to get for a T4? AFAIK none of the really cheap ones will work on a T4...

 

Got my ELM327 today, brilliant data feedback for my T5.1 using Dash Command app on my iPhone.

 

It's great to see live readouts working on the later T5s. Sadly, I'm stuck in the dark ages with an '05 T5 until I can afford something newer, which won't be for a while - and mine's still straight, clean, running well and passing MOTs without a hitch at 150k miles. The justification isn't there yet, so I want to play with what I have for now!

I've seen this..........
http://racediagnostics.com/cms/index.php?page=liquidcube
If only it wasn't so damn expensive.

Another neat option, aimed at Triffic, is the ebay Chinese head units that run on Android. They can run Torque quite nicely on their screen. I've been tempted by them, especially at the price, but I gather the radio and sound quality ain't that good.

 

I've seen this..........
http://racediagnostics.com/cms/index.php?page=liquidcube
If only it wasn't so damn expensive.

Yeah, that is just too much...

The £6 ELM327 dongle and the refurb Hudl arrived, and all up and running (with the free version of Torque) in around 30 mins - looks to be good for £65 all-in, but I've yet to make a charging mount for the Hudl.

One of the significant problems with the Android headunits (other than concerns about their long-term reliability) is the angle of a headunit in a T5. If the display on the headunit isn't super bright and doesn't have a very wide viewing angle then it's not going to be very visible at all.

If you reckon that the WBH-BT5 supports the protocol that you need, why don't you just buy one mail order (assuming you can find a UK based seller), see if it works and if not just send it back under DSR's? For the cost of the postage it's surely got to be worth a try...

 

Agreed.

But I was thinking that the postage to return it (you do have to pay that if the item is not defective) is going to be less if you buy within the UK.

And also that if - say - a German company refuses to comply with their equivalent of the DSR's, it's going to be one hell of a lot more complicated trying to get it enforced.

But then again, I couldn't find a UK based seller of that specific dongle when I looked a few days ago...