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Thanks Murky for all the info in your post , I am a lorry driver so I have just returned home tonight but at some point tommorrow I will look at fusebox. Further to your point regarding the 109 relay , we tried one from a neighbours working T4 but no joy there so I am pretty sure it is the black & white wire
Some pictures of fusebox would be greatly appreciated
Thanks very much .
 
If you are going to investigate the wire it is worth noting that it is white/black, not black/white. If you remove the bar in front of the fuse box you should be able to lower it enough to see the back and the connectors are numbered on the fuse board.
G1 ius the middle of three white connectors on the bottom row.
 
Thanks for reply I will try again to lower fusebox enough to get to the back. I was looking for a white/black wire
Where abouts are you ? If you have the time I could come to you , obviously I would pay for your time & knowledge
Regards Paul.
 
Thanks for reply I will try again to lower fusebox enough to get to the back. I was looking for a white/black wire
Where abouts are you ? If you have the time I could come to you , obviously I would pay for your time & knowledge
Regards Paul.
I am in Kidderminster but doubt I will have time to take it on until the end of the summer.
 
Hello All, :D
Seeing myself and a few others have been having trouble with the van not starting but having no GLOW plug light when turning the ignition on, but engine is turning but not starting. :confused:
I had a lot of help from other forum members A: so I thought I put something back.

I AM NOT A VAN MECHANIC. I am going to be quoting plug/pin/wire numbers/colours BUT THEY MIGHT NOT BE THE CORRECT ONES IN YOUR VAN. So I may NOT be correct in some of the things written below. Hopefully thou this will give you a idea/pointers/starting point.
But before I start here are a basic observation;
Part of the key ignition switch goes to relay 109 “engine control module power supply relay”, 109 “coil” side goes to ground Via the ECU. 109 “switch” side goes ECU fuse and then into the ECU. SO if 109 has no earth it can’t “switch on” power to the ECU so it’s not doing it’s “thing” when engine is cranked over = no start.

A multi meter and spare wire/cable will be very handy!

This is what I did ON A T4 65KW 2.4 TDI AJT engine.
Check fuse’s inside the van, below right of the steering wheel and fuses inside the engine bay normally in front of battery. (In a black cover/box) if they all ok.
Find relay 109 (2nd row up 3rd one in from left) remove it and test Voltage at slot 4, slots should be numbered. (Terminal 30 slots into 4) page 80/3 http://www.vwbooks.co.uk/vw_info/T4_pdfs/vw_T4_engine_wiring_2002.pdf It should read 12V. If not it’s power supply to the relay. (can’t help you on this one!)

If 12V there, take the removed relay 109, there should be a little circuit diagram on the side, get a small length of wire and join it to terminal 30 then terminal 87, so you got a small loop, basically you bypass the switch in the relay. Put the relay back in the fuse block/box.
Put in key and see if the glow plug light comes on and try starting.
IF it works it be relay 109 OR relay (fuse) box OR wiring.
If not it’s fuse box/ wiring to the ECU fuse. (Goto REF A for further T/S)

Simple test remove wire loop from relay, connect one end of wire to terminal 85 of 109 relay. the other end of wire put to ground (so long bit of wire be good) you should hear a click, turn key and see if glow plug light is on and start van. It still no go, looks like the relay is U/S (you could take cover off relay and hook it up to 12V to double check).

If the van started, it’s the earth side of the relay = fuse box/wires

Quick check the wires/plug on the back of the fuse box. You looking for plug G1 it's white (middle one of 3 white plugs, bottom row) http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE2.html THIS MIGHT NOT BE YOUR YEAR/MODEL but give you a idea. It could be a loose wire, look for a black and white wire.
If looks all ok, remove the white plug, best to un hook the side clips on the fuse box and let it hang, there is a little lever on the right side in-between the two row of plugs slide/pull it to the side. (Release’s the lock on the plugs)

Now we check the continuity of the circuit inside the fuse box. Remove relay 109, put one wire of the multi-meter in relay hole #5 (relay pin85) to pin 7 in terminal G7. (Make sure you on right pin)
If all ok it’s not fuse box.
Next step is to check the continuity of the wire (black & white) going from Plug G1, pin 7 to pin18 T121 which is the ECU. Bigger of the two connectors into the ECU (in front of Battery, low down)
I got access to back of the plug to see the wires and found which pin the black and white wire goes into. So if there is continuity looking like you ECU and you need to get a 2nd opinion!

REF A, continuity test, relay hole #8 (relay pin87) to pin 10 in terminal G7, to check fuse box. If ok check wire from plug G1 pin 10 to ECU T121 pin 1 and 2 (via ECU fuse) Black and Yellow.

If the Black and White wire failed the test, it is the wire, it is a long wire loam that comes in the engine bay drivers side then over the front/top of engine etc to the ECU. Just below the brake master cylinder is a common place for a break. Remove wires from the cable wrap/protector and fine the black and white wire and trace/insp it.

If you can’t see anything on the top, easy access to the wire, you can break down the continuity test by removing a LITTLE insulation of the black and white cable and then test plug G1 pin 7 to you new test point. Best also test from new test point to pin 18 in the ECU plug. Hopefully you now know which half/section of wire it is. (Don’t for get to re-protect the wire with tape after. I:)

Hope this helped. Below are some links that I found help full. (Most found in T4fourm)
And a big THANKS to Stero Steve, kfphil, nogdo, Tim at Phirm and my mate Chris M for helping me.A:


http://www.vwbooks.co.uk/t4.htm
http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE2.html
http://www.vwbooks.co.uk/vw_info/T4_pdfs/vw_T4_engine_wiring_2002.pdf
http://www.vwbooks.co.uk/vw_info/T4_pdfs/T4_Base_Wiring_from_May_1999_on.pdf
http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/vw/TR/
I think i've got this problem. Van wouldn't start this morning. Have got as far as checking 12v power to the relay, OK. Plus if i earth pin 85 i get glowplugs and can start. Stops as soon as you remove the earth. So it looks like its that white/black wire, got the back off the ECU plug after much faffing (removing loads of ex-AA stuff that perhaps I should have removed years ago, but I don't like to disturb things if they are working) broke a clip that holds the ECU to its bracket - grrr - hope you can get new ones. Now I can't see a white/black wire anywhere near pin 18 (3 along from 15 I assume)?? Also really don't want to be too heavy handed with the fusebox so struggling to get in enough to see this G1 pin 7 which should have a white/black wire also?
Pics..
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Any keen auto electricians in/around manchester?
 
Didn't do that, had some help from a friend of a friend who had one of those whizzy scope-meter things and looking at that pin 18 on the ecu (ignoring the fact that the little 15 on the pug is actually lined up with pin 14!) we found a varying voltage which wobbled when we wiggled the wiring loom (yes just by the brake master!) so I opened up the loom and was pretty rough with all the wires and guess what!?! The black/white wire eventually revealed a break. All fixed now! :cool:

Broken wire test joined with croc clips...
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All solder sleeved up...
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Oh except I broke a t-piece on the cooling header tank piping while i was fiddling around trying to secure the ECU temporarily with cable ties! Grrr! ...
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This thread was huge help, noticed if I moved the loom below the servo it would cut out and then eventually it refused to start, infected the wires but was a needle in a haystack. Using the guide found the black and white wire broken in that area.
 
Not sure if my van has the same problem. It started first time this morning but after a short journey, wouldn't start but turned over ok.

I tried 4 or 5 times then, after waiting 5 minutes, I tried it again and it suddenly started again first time. Any ideas what it could be?

I'm thinking maybe fuel relay switch, air in the fuel pipe or fuel pump problem. The van is a diesel T4 2.5, year 2000

Any suggestions really appreciated!
 
Just about to read through all of the posts but I'm having identical issue to the OP. Thought I'd post details of my issue while I trawl through the other posts!


I have an Ex-AA T4, with a number of the AA extras still in place (more of that later).


My problem started a few weeks ago and was intermittent - whilst driving the glow plug light would come on briefly and engine would cut out, but would almost instantly carry on as though nothing had happened.
It now will not start at all, although the engine will turn over. When the key is turned the glow plug light will not come on. Spoke to my garage where I get all my work done and as a result have checked the usual suspect - the loom running over the cylinder head. Every wire that has been worn has been replaced, even if it wasn't broken - if I could see any copper I cut that section out and soldered a new section in. Being hopeful, I tried again but still not glow plug light.
I see mention of checking the relay in position 3 but I do not have a replay there! I'm assuming this is due to the AA mods (or a previous owner!) Instead there is a spade connector going into terminal 6, which leads to a 10a fuse, before another wire leads to a relay tucked right at the top of the carrier.
This morning I have also plugged in a code reader (very basic) which has given the following - 00532 Supply Voltage B+ 07-10 Signal too low - Intermittent, as well as another code that needs registration/activation of the software to give details, which is 65535. Looking online this relates to "internal control module memory error".
My garage has suggested that I check the ground but not sure where to look.
What else should I be checking? As I said before, I'm about to read through the whole thread, but there could be something simple...
 
While awaiting a helpful reply, I'm going to follow the instructions in the original post, namely -



Checking the fuses by the battery
Checking plug G1
Checking continuity of the fuse box (although uncertain where G7 is until I go and look!)
 
A little update after some testing.
All fuses are OK.
I cannot get the middle of the 3 white plugs out to check what I mentioned before...


In the picture below you can see the non-standard wiring and have worked out the following -

The black relay that is hanging loose is one that I have replaced and it seems to work OK. The red wire between the relay marked 53 and the loose-hanging relay seems to provide a 12v supply. When I turn on the ignition it supplies 12v to the other red wire that connects to the addition fuse block and terminates at the yellow spade connector. The 12v supply then continues to relay position "3" and connects to the terminal marked 6. Isn't this where a 109 relay normally lives?


So my question is - Is the 12v supply described actually doing something by going into terminal No. 6, or have I inadvertently plugged it back into the wrong one? Would this "extra" fuse block and wiring be a workaround for a different problem??



Image
 
Another update - existing questions above still need answering, but guess people are still at work.....


I have managed to remove the middle white plug at the rear of the fuse carrier and have identified the black with white wire. I have tested continuity between the connector and the ECU and wire is intact.


I have tried to test for continuity between the pin described in the original post (that the above connector plugs into) and the relevant terminal in the 109 block, but no matter what I do, I cannot visualise the pins to get the right one. BUT - I do not have a 109 relay, and never have - is this an essential test in the process.


I will stop posting for now, and will wait for responses to my earlier questions.
 
Me again! Still looking for replies?
I have managed to test (as per the original post) the fuse board continuity between hole #5 and pin 7 in G1 and it is fine.


I am now a little confused by this part of the original post -



"REF A, continuity test, relay hole #8 (relay pin87) to pin 10 in terminal G7, to check fuse box. If ok check wire from plug G1 pin 10 to ECU T121 pin 1 and 2 (via ECU fuse) Black and Yellow."


There is no hole #8 in relay position 3, but looking at another thread I have come to the conclusion that it should be hole,#6 as this is where the jumper wire I have pictured above is fed with 12v, so off to test that one now.
 
More results, and an outstanding question that hasn't been answered.



When I turn on the ignition key there is a 12v supply to the black/yellow wire, plug G1, pin #10. There is continuity between this point and pins #1 & #2 at the ECU plug. When I check the voltage at pins #1/#2 (ECU) I get 12.2v at both.


If I am getting this error code - 00532 Supply Voltage B+ 07-10 Signal too low - Intermittent, does this relate to this supply, or some other ECU supply??



With this in mind, what is the next thing to check?



Unanswered question from my other posts -



1. I have been advised to check the earths - I have no idea how many/where they are?
 
Ignore the intermittent low voltage code, it's too generic and not specific to your problem. I would begin by going to TPS or a VW Van dealer and getting the proper relay and plugging it in. Also, the wiring breakages are not confined to the section above the engine. They can also occur in the bottom loop by the gear box. It is the white/black wire that you need to check. This carries a negative from 109 to the ECU to authorise starting.
 
Ignore the intermittent low voltage code, it's too generic and not specific to your problem. I would begin by going to TPS or a VW Van dealer and getting the proper relay and plugging it in. Also, the wiring breakages are not confined to the section above the engine. They can also occur in the bottom loop by the gear box. It is the white/black wire that you need to check. This carries a negative from 109 to the ECU to authorise starting.

I have checked that, and have continuity from pin 7 in G1 right back to the ECU plug.

I have also checked for voltage at the fuel cutoff solenoid (if that's the right term) on the fuel pump and getting nothing.
 
Just had an afterthought. If there is no relay in position 3 (109) and it only has a 12v supply going into hole#6, will that have an impact on carrying the negative to the ECU? If yes, how come it was working fine before with the existing wiring?
 
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