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Hi all - don't know if this question is in the right area but can't find the answer using the search thread so here goes. Been doing 'stuff' on my T5 04 plate van (had dash out to be flocked, chrome rings on speedo cluster - that sort of stuff) so have had battery disconnected and on trickle charge.

I've reconnected the battery over the weekend and now my mileage/trip and clock are constantly displayed ?! I thought that the displayed powered down and went out after a few seconds of the doors closing ?!

Any help appreciated - cheers Mark
 
Is there another way to bookmark threads?

Im giving serious thought to changing my T4 2002 2.5TDI cluster to that of the Passat which, from reading, I gather should give me more information (as long as I add sensors around the van)
 
Is there another way to bookmark threads?
No need to post.

At the post of each thread you'll find a menu "Thread Tools". Click on "Subscribe to thread" in that menu and it'll be in your subscriptions and you get notifications. Without having to post in the thread.

/M
 
T:hi there ive been reading your threads and im impressed on your knowledge
please forgive my spelling im not the best
i wondered if you can help me.
i have a caravelle 2003 2.5 tdi. t4
when i bought it was automatic with manual clocks in (also in km not miles)why i dont know only had a word with birmingham vw and was speced mph from new. i want to put mph clocks in with new features if possible but not essential . the clocks that have km on are part number 7d0 920 802 Q i have bought some off ebay with number 7d0 920 902 c but when fitted the rev counter hardly works and the oil light and buzzer is on. please can you advise which ones to get as im confused many thanks jase
p.s. my number is 07812 971395 if you text me i will call you back thanks again
Instruments/Clusters/Clocks/Dials/Dash Panels etc. whatever you care to call them. I prefer the term 'instrument cluster' as this to me most accurately describes what is in question – a clock is something that tells the time and usually hangs on the wall :):) This is a short overview of the various types originally fitted to the T4, along with those from other vehicles which will fit. Hopefully it will answer many of the common questions people have been asking.

There are basically 3 different types or 'eras' of cluster fitted to the T4

Early (~1990 -> 09/1995)

These clusters followed the styling adopted across the VW vehicle range at the time. Typically as fitted to the T4, they look like the pic. below with some variation, usually relating to the position of the clock or fitment of a tachometer.

Image


Pic 1. - A 1995 2.4D Auto cluster with cable speedo


Some of the high-end petrol T4 clusters (Caravelle etc.) of this era were fitted with MFA (a display which included such niceties as MPG/trip/etc.) with a corresponding selector switch on the wiper stalk. This was the only cluster which had a basic diagnostic interface – all others were 'dumb'.

Typically the clusters of this era had a mechanical cable-driven speedometer/odometer/tripmeter in the center of the cluster, and an analogue clock occupying the RHS of the cluster, (or digital one on the LHS whilst the tacho occupied the space of the analogue clock) with the temperature and fuel gauges on the far LHS. The backlighting was a greenish colour as was the remainder of the dash backlighting.

Mid (09/1995 -> 06/1999)

The cluster from this period was very similar to the previous one but the styling and fonts for the speedo and gauges had changed slightly and now included a rear fog lamp warning indicator. Also from this period onward all speedometers were electronic – there were no cable speedos. Other changes included an electronic odo and trip which was now located at the bottom of the speedo – this is the easiest way to identify this particular cluster.

Image


Pic 2. - A 2.5TDI manual (96-99) all electronic cluster



All clusters now also had a k-line diagnostic interface which meant that they all used the same hardware and a simple change of the to soft coding values meant that the cluster could be used with any type of engine/gearbox combination. The cluster had the same physical dimensions as the previous one and the binnacle was the same shape and size. Which meant that the plastic surround was the same shape. This essentially means that (physically at least) this cluster is a straight swap for the old cable-drive one. Although rare (and usually only on LHD vehicles) these clusters were available with MFA on petrol and 2.5TDI diesel high-end vehicles – Caravelle, Multivan etc.


Late (~06/1999 -> 2004)

The famous “blue clocks” which everyone seems to crave as an upgrade. These are a quite a minefield and have caused all sorts of problems for those who think it's a case of 'plug and play'. Like the 95->99 clusters these are all-electronic, and also use a K-line interface for fault diagnosis/adaption. The styling was a major departure from the to previous generations of cluster and again closely reflected that of other VAG vehicles of the time. These clusters also included lots of warning indicators for various aspects such as seatbelt, ABS, etc., although not all of these were implemented (depending largely on the trim-level or vehicle type). I am also reliably informed (although I cannot confirm this) that some high-end RHD vehicles (Caravelle/Multivan) were fitted with FIS Fahrerinformationsystem (Driver Information System) clusters. The FIS cluster has an LCD screen backlit by red LEDs in the middle of the cluster, which takes up the whole rectangular area where most VWs have the warning lights.

Image


Pic 3. - A 2.5TDI European spec. 'blue' cluster


Functionally speaking there were two different types of cluster (although outwardly they look identical) and this is where the trouble begins! The first type uses discrete signals for the speedo, RPM, airbag, and back-lighting (i.e. these are wired directly to the pins on the blue and green sockets on the back of the cluster) – these are the clusters that were fitted to all 1.9TD T4 vehicles (06/1999->) and some 2.5TDI up until ~2001. The second type of cluster used CAN-bus to send the messages from the relevant body module/ECU for this functionality to the cluster. This basically means that the pins for the discrete signals do nothing, and if you put the cluster in a non-CAN based vehicle some or all of the functions mentioned previously will not work.

FAQ

1. If I have an older (pre 96) van with cable speedo can I fit one of the newer clusters?

Yes you can, but...as all the later clusters use electronic speedo you will need to add a sensor to the gearbox and some additional wiring. This is fairly straightforward and shouldn't be a problem if you are handy.


2. I have a 1.9D/TD (or 2.4D), can I just replace my cluster for one that has a rev counter?

Yes you can as long as the new cluster is from a 1.9TD or 2.4D. The tach. will not work if the new cluster came from a 2.5TDI as the engine speed signal for the 2.5TDI is generated by the ECU and is different to the signal on the 1.9D/TD (which is generated by the alternator).


3. I want the “blue clocks”, will any old 'blue-style' cluster fit my van?

No - As a rule only non CAN-based T4 clusters will work in a non-CAN vehicle. So, when looking for a blue style cluster to fit your van make sure the part number is one of those listed in the table below which does not have CAN. Again, if you have an older van (pre '95) you will need add a speed sensor to the gearbox as well as the harness which connects the fusebox to the cluster itself.


4. I have converted my van to 1.9TDI, I have been told that I need to use the cluster from the donor vehicle – is this true?

Absolutely not, you should keep your original T4 cluster, it will work just fine. Not only will any donor car cluster not physically fit the instrument aperture but it is enirely un-necessary to go to all of the hassle of 'making it fit' and swapping the harness. The only minor change you may need to consider when keeping the original cluster is the wiring of the RPM signal (on the TDI it is derived from the ECU and on the TD/2.4D from the alternator). However this is only necessary if you have a tach fitted to your original cluster

5. I have fitted a set of 'blue clocks' to my van, but I can't get the backlighting/RPM/Glow warning/etc to work, what's wrong?

You have probably fitted a cluster from a CAN-based vehicle - see Q3 above

6. I have bought a new cluster but the mileage is different from my old one, can I use VAG COM to correct it?

Yes and No, VAG COM will only allow you change the mileage upwards, and only if the odo reads <100 miles, once changed, it cannot be altered backwards. So, for example if your new cluster reads 00086, you can alter it with VAG COM to read e.g. 145,560. I can change odo readings or recode your replacement cluster for a small fee (strictly to cover carriage etc.) if you send me the cluster.





So besides the T4 clusters are there any others that will fit?


Yes....but there are some caveats - see below:

Non-TDI engined vehicles e.g. 1.9D/TD/2.4D:

  • VW Passat B4 D/TD will fit both physically and are also the same in terms of the electrical characteristics.

Image


Pic. 4 - A Cable-driven 1997 Passat B4 1.9TD Instrument Cluster


TDI engined vehicles (either retrofit 1.9TDI or original 2.5TDI)

  • VW Passat B4 TDI will fit both physically and are also the same in terms of the electrical characteristics.

  • VW Golf 4 Diesel "Blue Clocks" non-CAN clusters P/N: 1J0 919 XXX The binnacle fronts (plastic shrouds) are slightly different from the T4 ones but if you have a corresponding late T4 cluster these can be swapped over. The T4 fuel tank sender can be modified by swapping the polarity and adding a low-ohm resistor to the hot side. A much more elegant solution is to fit the Passat/Golf tank sender - then there is no modification - just plug'n'play. Also the golf clusters have immobiliser 2 built-in, so you could do-away with your immobiliser box and just use the one in the cluster if you wanted to. Furthermore, some of these clusters are available with MFA (p/n's: 1J0 919 911, 1J0 919 930, and 1J0 919 931 are the three I am aware of) and by connecting the fuel-consumption signal you can get goodies such as MPG, miles till empty, etc.

  • VW Passat B5 (98-2003) Diesel non-CAN clusters (part numbers 3B0 919 XXXx) will also work but the fuel gauge will read incorrectly – modify as per Golf 4 cluster above. You may also find that the speed reads slow - the EEPROM can be modified to correct this however if you have the necessary s/w

  • Golf 3/Toledo/Polo 4/Ibiza/Inca/Caddy/etc. clusters will also fit obviously if you have 1.9TDI conversion, but again you may experience issues with fuel gaugeand speedo readings.


If you have a 1990 ->1999 Petrol T4 then you may want to consider a VW Corrado cluster (comes with all the MFA toys built-in T:):

Image


Pic. 5 - 1994 VW Corrado 2.8 Petrol Instrument Cluster

Soft Coding (for 'blue' clusters)

Instrument Cluster Soft Coding Values are 5 digit numbers which you will see in the soft coding box in VAG COM when you communicate with the cluster.

?? XXX - Options

+01 = Brake Pad Wear Warning activated
+02 = Seat belt Warning activated
+04 = Washer Fluid Warning activated
+08 = Seatbelt Warning (North America)
+10 = Seatbelt Warning Driver & Passenger active (North America)
+16 = Radio/Navigation Display

Add the values of all the installed component options together and the total is the first two digits of the soft coding e.g. if you have washer fluid level warning and brake pad wear indicators then 01 + 04 = 05.

XX ? XX - Country

1 = Europe
2 = USA
3 = Canada/Mexico/Latin America
4 = United Kingdom
5 = Japan
6 = Saudi Arabia
7 = Australia

Changing this value will make the cluster odometer display in either miles or km, and the time display in either 12 or 24hr clock.


For T4 clusters only = XXX ? X - No of Cylinders

4 = 4 cylinder Engine
5 = 5 cylinder Engine
6 = 6 cylinder (petrol) Engine

Self explanatory...

For Golf/Passat Clusters: = XXX ? X - Service Interval

0 = Fixed Service Interval (PR-QG0) without Oil Level/Temperature Sensor
1 = Flexible Service Interval with Oil Level/Temperature Sensor (PR-QG1)
2 = Fixed Service Interval with Oil Level/Temperature Sensor (PR-QG2)
3 = No Service Interval (North America)

This value change the service interval and hence frequency of the alerts on the cluster...

XXXX ? - Distance Impulse Number (K-Value)

0 = Speed signal via CAN - All Engines/Gearbox combinations
1 = 4345 Pulses/KM or 6991 Pulses/Mile
2 = 3528 Pulses/KM or 5677 Pulses/Mile
3 = 4134 Pulses/KM or 6651 Pulses/Mile
4 = 3648 Pulses/KM or 5870 Pulses/Mile


Blue Cluster Part Numbers:

No code has to be inserted here.

Connector Pinouts


Early Instrument Clusters (1990 -> 1995) - Single 28 Pin Connector

No code has to be inserted here.


Mid Era Instrument Clusters (1995 -> 1998) - Single 28 Pin Connector

No code has to be inserted here.
 
right I have a T4 2001 I uprgraded to 3B0920927a I have just ordered the full mfa version 3B0920849A bran new with code and 0 miles on the clock who can re write it for me so the speedo will read right as my old clocks are 10 miles an hour out ie clock on 20 mph im doing 30mph and also I would like the fuel gauge to read the right way round
 
Right I have just installed 3b0920949 and was wondering if I extract the dump out of it would any one be able to re write it will correct fuel map beer tokens will be provided
 
My 1999 Velle has has lost the tow Lcd displays on the cluster. There were some signs that it was going to give up. The part number for the cluster is 7D0 920 900 B, using the above info, it is a non CAN based cluster.

I would like to know what my options are, obviously a direct replacement would be ideal, however with all things T4 there is usually scene tax attached.

If I put a non CAN cluster in from a TDI passat, will I be able to set the cylinders in the vehicle from 4 to 5 using VAGCOM? I ask this because I believe most passat were 4 cylinder and the software on the cluster might not have that coding.

Is there any wiring external to the cluster that can cause the LCD to fail? I was told by someone that it could be the LCD driver chip on the PCB of the cluster.

Thanks in advance

Jase
 
Re: Fuel gauge mods to use 3B0 920 920A cluster in T4

Nice to hear you made it :) T:
I recently fitted a Passat 3B0 919 931 cluster in my T3 Syncro with AFN TDI. Similar mods would be needed to use it in a T4.
..
But hopefully these pointers might be useful. Thanks to 'mella' for some initial assistance on this.
 
Hi all - don't know if this question is in the right area but can't find the answer using the search thread so here goes. Been doing 'stuff' on my T5 04 plate van (had dash out to be flocked, chrome rings on speedo cluster - that sort of stuff) so have had battery disconnected and on trickle charge.

I've reconnected the battery over the weekend and now my mileage/trip and clock are constantly displayed ?! I thought that the displayed powered down and went out after a few seconds of the doors closing ?!

Any help appreciated - cheers Mark
hi mine is an o3 and stays on all the time
hope this helps
 
Right I have just installed 3b0920949 and was wondering if I extract the dump out of it would any one be able to re write it will correct fuel map beer tokens will be provided
Hi did you get those clocks sorted Kev ?

And does any one have any dumps-eeproms from any mfa or full fis T4 clocks OR any modified passat-golf eeproms that are being using on a T4 transporter or older model.

Mella and vwsyncro i would be very interested in your eeproms if you still have them please.

Very grateful for any help at all, many thanks Dean
 
t4 97 auto to manual issues.. not my doing so ive got to start from scratch

what would be a suitable replacement or is it ok to keep, digital mileage and auto gear display.?

i have petrol and rev counter issues very erratic
and the speedo doesnt work
:*
 
Hi
Ive checked my cluster codes using vagcom
My cluster is 7D0920902P with softcode 01412
According to the details this cluster is for a petrol T4 and yet it has 5K max rpm, its in a 2.5tdi with an acv is this normal?
Also my softcode does not follow correctly the definitions outlined.
Adam
 
Hi all, need a little help please.
I am fitting a 1z tdi from a donor B4 passat, into a Jan 1997 T4 van - was ABL, I have also used the immobiliser from donor too.
I am also going to use the clocks to add a tacho to the van ( 3A0 919 910E ) and have fitted them using the cluster AND loom from the passat, i hope this is correct. Can someone confirm this, or do I need to use the old t4 cluster loom. I understand from the earlier threads theses should work, and am hoping the ecu should deal with the tacho signal as well-please confirm if you can.

If I continue and use the passat loom, which has plugged straight into the same position in the fusebox.
I have some spare wires, coming from the cluster loom.
Brown and white - brown 1 pin connector.
Purple and white - black 1 pin connector.
Red and white - blue 1 pin connector.
Where do these wires go, if anywhere?

The only obvious wire that may connect is the purple and white, as I have a purple and white coming from the tdi engine bay loom.
I do not think these clocks are mfa as the screen in the speedo is quite small and the donor didn't have an mfa stalk.

I am still wiring so cant power these up yet.
Any advice about these clocks, and what features I might have would be very helpful please.
Tim:D
 
From the article above:

Please re-read the thread carefully, all of the answers to your questions are there in the text. Your speedo is already electronic. If you want an easy solution, get a 1995-1998 cluster from a either 1.9TD or 2.4D only, with a tach and that will plug straight into the existing harness - done. If you want the later cluster you will need one from a 1.9TD along with the harness, binnacle and surround. Hope this helps
Image

Image


Now heres the interesting part, this cluster came from a 2000 1.9TD (ABL) van, factory fit.
The guy on ebay listed the part number as 7DO 920 901 G and having read up on the parts numbers for these I read that

Ill let you guys know how I get on with wiring it up this weekend, Ill try and do a write up for itT:
so taking on the advice, i now have a pair of the above clocks, and loom. I can tell you these dont come up often! I have a few questions if I may:
1) will the loom from these clocks plug into my fusebox, i have the clocks just before these, 1998 2.4d. OR do I need to splice my loom into this loom?
2) I belive the clocks I have have far too few miles on and would like to get these upped and corrected, I did buy a dodgey cable off ebay a while ago, though i am scared of bricking these,,,any insight into this?
 
Hi guys,
I am very confused.
I have looked and read all the info about blue clusters, but for me still is a minefild.
I own a T4 Multivan fabr in 97, LHD, 2,5 TDI, 102 HP,ACV engine code.
What kind, or part number of blue clusters, with KPH should I look for? The only think I know is I should mount a non CAN ones.
Kind regards,
Sorin
 
I read through your thread and cant find a solution to my problem I have a 2002 ev vr6 usa version and I just finish swapping a 97 2.5 tdi acv runs good. and if I unplug my original can bus cluster my windows wont work what cluster will still allow the can portion of the van talk but still work with the kline ecm? please help very despite
 
Hi,

I am after an instrument cluster to fit my 1.9TD ABL engine, van was registered in 2001.

I have a fault with my current cluster and suspect it needs replacing. The instruent lights will only illuminate when you power on the CD unit, when you turn the ignition off the gauges remain at there last position. The clock and milage trip will not hold memory either.

The milage on the van is 98,000. Im looking for a cluster that has <98,000 to be able to re-set the milage accordingly.

Thanks
Matt
07875224097
 
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