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Ok, it is common for the contacts inside the relay plate to spread or burn causing a bad connection when you put the relay in. Have a good look at these contacts.
 
Just bridged terminal 30 to 87 with a small piece of wire to get the van going again.

Will it be ok for a few days like this? Isnt this circuit now live all the time?
 
thanks guys for all the help by posting this thread! got caught out last night..jumped in the van to come home after working on a bit later than normal and no glow plug light and the engine wouldn't fire. took the AA 5 HOURS to get me home! they were clueless as to what it was :*. ended up back home just after midnite :(

anyway this morning i found this thread and went though everything and found a broken ECU to fusebox wire (very thin guage black & white wire). it was broken in the conduit that runs accross the top of the engine at the front.

so happy van days again! cheers guys you've save me a bundle of money by not having to take it to the garage T:
 
Okay I have a 2.4 T4 cold start just doesn't happen, I have to bump start which is only a little pain in the back side. I have the correct glow plug light on the dash during start up, I have changed 4 out of 5 of the glow plugs ( the one behind the alterator was just too much of a pain to get to with just the normal number of jints in my arm), I have changed the glow plug relay, I found ne of the pins to be burnt and melted plastic, now no difference to cold start so on further inspection I can't see the contacts in the pin socket with the burn dammage.:*What to do next Can I get the fuse board appart I can't see how? is there a bypass for example a remote socket for th relay? HELP:*
 
You will need to change the fuse box. Also, have you checked the strip fuse under the bonnet? If you get stuck I think I have a spare fuse box kicking around.
 
Edited to include a few pics

Will update further tomorrow

Dave

Hello All, :D
Seeing myself and a few others have been having trouble with the van not starting but having no GLOW plug light when turning the ignition on, but engine is turning but not starting. :confused:
I had a lot of help from other forum members A: so I thought I put something back.

I AM NOT A VAN MECHANIC. I am going to be quoting plug/pin/wire numbers/colours BUT THEY MIGHT NOT BE THE CORRECT ONES IN YOUR VAN. So I may NOT be correct in some of the things written below. Hopefully thou this will give you a idea/pointers/starting point.
But before I start here are a basic observation;
Part of the key ignition switch goes to relay 109 “engine control module power supply relay”, 109 “coil” side goes to ground Via the ECU. 109 “switch” side goes ECU fuse and then into the ECU. SO if 109 has no earth it can’t “switch on” power to the ECU so it’s not doing it’s “thing” when engine is cranked over = no start.

A multi meter and spare wire/cable will be very handy!

This is what I did ON A T4 65KW 2.4 TDI AJT engine.
Check fuse’s inside the van, below right of the steering wheel (Picture 1)and fuses inside the engine bay normally in front of battery. (In a black cover/box) if they all ok.
Find relay 109 (2nd row up 3rd one in from left) (Picture 2)remove it (Picture 3)and test Voltage at slot 4, slots should be numbered. (Terminal 30 slots into 4) page 80/3 http://www.vwbooks.co.uk/vw_info/T4_pdfs/vw_T4_engine_wiring_2002.pdf It should read 12V. If not it’s power supply to the relay. (can’t help you on this one!)

If 12V there, take the removed relay 109, there should be a little circuit diagram on the side, get a small length of wire and join it to terminal 30 then terminal 87 (Picture 4), so you got a small loop, basically you bypass the switch in the relay. Put the relay back in the fuse block/box.
Put in key and see if the glow plug light comes on and try starting.
IF it works it be relay 109 OR relay (fuse) box OR wiring.
If not it’s fuse box/ wiring to the ECU fuse. (Goto REF A for further T/S)

Simple test remove wire loop from relay, connect one end of wire to terminal 85 of 109 relay. the other end of wire put to ground (so long bit of wire be good) (Picture 5)you should hear a click, turn key and see if glow plug light is on and start van. It still no go, looks like the relay is U/S (you could take cover off relay and hook it up to 12V to double check).

If the van started, it’s the earth side of the relay = fuse box/wires

Quick check the wires/plug on the back of the fuse box. You looking for plug G1 it's white (middle one of 3 white plugs, bottom row) http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE2.html THIS MIGHT NOT BE YOUR YEAR/MODEL but give you a idea. It could be a loose wire, look for a black and white wire. (Picture 6)
If looks all ok, remove the white plug, (Picture 7)best to un hook the side clips on the fuse box and let it hang, there is a little lever on the right side in-between the two row of plugs slide/pull it to the side. (Release’s the lock on the plugs)

Now we check the continuity of the circuit inside the fuse box. Remove relay 109, put one wire of the multi-meter in relay hole #5 (relay pin85) to pin 7 in terminal G7. (Make sure you on right pin)
If all ok it’s not fuse box.
Next step is to check the continuity of the wire (black & white) going from Plug G1, pin 7 to pin18 T121 which is the ECU. Bigger of the two connectors into the ECU (in front of Battery, low down) (Picture 8 (Black and white wire with plug inserted to check continuity), and Pic 9 - ECU)
I got access to back of the plug to see the wires and found which pin the black and white wire goes into. So if there is continuity looking like you ECU and you need to get a 2nd opinion!

REF A, continuity test, relay hole #8 (relay pin87) to pin 10 in terminal G7, to check fuse box. If ok check wire from plug G1 pin 10 to ECU T121 pin 1 and 2 (via ECU fuse) Black and Yellow. (Picture 10)

If the Black and White wire failed the test, it is the wire, it is a long wire loam that comes in the engine bay drivers side then over the front/top of engine etc to the ECU (Picture 11). Just below the brake master cylinder is a common place for a break. Remove wires from the cable wrap/protector and fine the black and white wire and trace/insp it.

If you can’t see anything on the top, easy access to the wire, you can break down the continuity test by removing a LITTLE insulation of the black and white cable and then test plug G1 pin 7 to you new test point. Best also test from new test point to pin 18 in the ECU plug. Hopefully you now know which half/section of wire it is. (Don’t for get to re-protect the wire with tape after. I:)

Hope this helped. Below are some links that I found help full. (Most found in T4fourm)
And a big THANKS to Stero Steve, kfphil, nogdo, Tim at Phirm and my mate Chris M for helping me.A:


http://www.vwbooks.co.uk/t4.htm
http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE2.html
http://www.vwbooks.co.uk/vw_info/T4_pdfs/vw_T4_engine_wiring_2002.pdf
http://www.vwbooks.co.uk/vw_info/T4_pdfs/T4_Base_Wiring_from_May_1999_on.pdf
http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/vw/TR/

Picture 1
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Picture 2
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Picture 3
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Picture 4
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Picture 5 - bar across front is earth!
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Picture 6 - Fuse box hanging down
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Picture 7 - G1 slot with plug out
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Picture 8 - Continuity testing foreground shows loom in to ECU with tape removed - I have added a bullet connector to test continuity more easily in the future too.
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Picture 9 - ECU inc plugs - Mine is placed under the battery tray (removed in this pic)
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Picture 10 - Continuity testing black and yellow wire - wire out of ECU plug runs in to van where multimeter is to plug G7
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Picture 11 - Wiring in engine bay
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Simple test remove wire loop from relay, connect one end of wire to terminal 85 of 109 relay. the other end of wire put to ground (so long bit of wire be good) you should hear a click, turn key and see if glow plug light is on and start van. It still no go, looks like the relay is U/S (you could take cover off relay and hook it up to 12V to double check).

This is where I've got to - I can hear a click but when I turn the key the the glow plug light doesn't come on and the engine doesn't start.

That means a new 109 relay then right?

Fat chance of getting ne of those on a Sunday :(
 
Simple test remove wire loop from relay, connect one end of wire to terminal 85 of 109 relay. the other end of wire put to ground (so long bit of wire be good) you should hear a click, turn key and see if glow plug light is on and start van. It still no go, looks like the relay is U/S (you could take cover off relay and hook it up to 12V to double check).

This is where I've got to - I can hear a click but when I turn the key the the glow plug light doesn't come on and the engine doesn't start.

That means a new 109 relay then right?

Fat chance of getting ne of those on a Sunday :(
Try this first and see if you can get your van started!! as you are bypassing the relay :), This will also tell you if you have a wiring fault if it doesn't work.
If 12V there, take the removed relay 109, there should be a little circuit diagram on the side, get a small length of wire and join it to terminal 30 then terminal 87, so you got a small loop, basically you bypass the switch in the relay. Put the relay back in the fuse block/box.
Put in key and see if the glow plug light comes on and try starting.
IF it works it be relay 109 OR relay (fuse) box OR wiring.
If not it’s fuse box/ wiring to the ECU fuse. (Goto REF A for further T/S)
 
yes I do have a multimeter
Follow that guide and test for continuity on wires, get some long wire as well :)


"REF A, continuity test, relay hole #8 (relay pin87) to pin 10 in terminal G7, to check fuse box. If ok check wire from plug G1 pin 10 to ECU T121 pin 1 and 2 (via ECU fuse) Black and Yellow."

G1 is on the back of the fusebox, at the bottom and middle white connector iirc.
G1 10 is 2nd from top right hand side of G1 pins

Image


This is kind of upside-down on the van as you pull the top part forward (Which is the bottom part on picture) so it's facing horizontal, due to tight wires.
So imagine the G connectors are at the back of the now horizontal rear of fusebox.
 
I've just finished mine.

I tried all of the above and got to the end, having found a continous link with both wires mentioned.

I started to panic a little inside at this point and thought I'll stick everything back together and get an electrician to look at it.

However, it now works withthe only plausible explanation being that there was a loose connection on G1 to rear of fuse box OR

is it possible the ECU to fuse box (Brown wire that breaks out of the large plug ecu loom and runs to engine fuse box was at fault as I also tidied that up a bit.

Cery happy that a) van works and b) while leisure battery was out (ECU under battery tray) I fitted LED side lights eventually as one side light had gone anyway and realised an elemental mistake on LED strips fitted under lights, one of which had stopped working!

Hopefully this is now sorted. I'll add more pics soon but sleeping baby in my arm means one handed reply is as far as I am going for now

Dave
 
Thanks for your help, Insanity - just what I need so stupid question alert:eek:

I don't know how to access the back of yhe fuse box!

You mention pulling it forward - not sure how :*
 
Thanks for your help, Insanity - just what I need so stupid question alert:eek:

I don't know how to access the back of yhe fuse box!

You mention pulling it forward - not sure how :*
It lifts up and pulls out. Look at the side of the metal frame at the guides, should give you an idea how it comes out.
You will probably need to pull the relay looking thing out that has loads of wires going in to it that's in the front next to all the relays to give you clearance.

Daft Q, but have you double checked ALL fuses, inc any underneath the fusebox with a black plastic cover over (Vehicle data sticker is on it) And any in the engine bay by the ECU?
 
A: Started it !

I wasn't happy that I'd bypassed the relay properly so instead of connecting to the spades on the relay I put the wire into the sockets corresponding to 30 and 87 and ..............

......... Happy days :D

Thanks for all your help

James:D
 
A: Started it !

I wasn't happy that I'd bypassed the relay properly so instead of connecting to the spades on the relay I put the wire into the sockets corresponding to 30 and 87 and ..............

......... Happy days :D

Thanks for all your help

James:D
So all you need to do now is check your wiring, relay and fuses!*<:)>T:
Chances are when you were jumpering with wires earlier you were not making a connection.
 
More stupid questions

I checked all the fuses and they're all good.

Don't I just need a new relay then if bypassing it makes it start?

Is it safe to drive with the wire bypassing the relay as I have no access to another vehicle tomorrow?
 
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